|
|
Post by Jeff H on Aug 29, 2014 3:05:21 GMT 1
Ah, well. I'm afraid you've completely lost me now, my friend. I have truly enjoyed this discussion and, as you have already said, I too found it to be a valuable learning opportunity. I think now we're just spinning our wheels, though, so it's time for me to bow out. Thank you so much for the interaction and I sincerely hope that your solitary realizations continue to be most fulfilling for you.  |
|
|
|
Post by csee on Aug 29, 2014 6:27:56 GMT 1
Ah, well. I'm afraid you've completely lost me now, my friend. I have truly enjoyed this discussion and, as you have already said, I too found it to be a valuable learning opportunity. I think now we're just spinning our wheels, though, so it's time for me to bow out. Thank you so much for the interaction and I sincerely hope that your solitary realizations continue to be most fulfilling for you. Thank you so much for this discussion , indeed I learnt ....... |
|
|
|
Post by noessentialnature on Aug 30, 2014 3:08:04 GMT 1
It sounds to me like you are in a hurry to get rid of the raft before you have even got your feet wet. How can I " get rid of the raft" if I never even " on the raft"? ........I learnt that many people trying to learn Buddhism with so many ways , some go for a teacher and created a " teacher/student relationship" , some read tons of books , some meditate etc ...sorry in advance I cant find any reason to agree how could Buddhism be learned....even how could anyone have any reason to teach Buddhism ......
I currently realized Buddhism is realization of own existence and realizing that emotion is cause of existence .....as one awaken to this path , one emotion will be gradually reduced so all desire / love / fear / worry / hate etc will gradually decreases ......so if one created emotion say have desire " to learn" or " to have intention for something" , this will lead into creation of more emotion ...and this will caused longer journey .......just like if you in a river , you can swim away from the sea , you can stay holding on something in the river but you can never get out from the river ...you regardless how long it takes , regardless what you do , you will end up in the sea .........so if you swimming hard against the current , you can only suffer of fatigue but still you can never get out from the river ...no matter how you resist , you can only suffer and yet sooner or later you will end up in the sea ...but if you created intention to go to the sea and you swim as hard as fast as you can ...still you can only suffer of fatigue because there is no sea ..........the sea is always is you..........Buddhism is realization not determination .The Buddhist path is realisation, for the sake of all beings. You are clearly very happy with your insight. Now how are you going to use it? Buddhism is dropping the self, and compassion. So an end to suffering for yourself, must mean wanting that for all beings right? What is your way to that? What is your answer? |
|
|
|
Post by csee on Aug 30, 2014 8:33:28 GMT 1
It sounds to me like you are in a hurry to get rid of the raft before you have even got your feet wet. How can I " get rid of the raft" if I never even " on the raft"? ........I learnt that many people trying to learn Buddhism with so many ways , some go for a teacher and created a " teacher/student relationship" , some read tons of books , some meditate etc ...sorry in advance I cant find any reason to agree how could Buddhism be learned....even how could anyone have any reason to teach Buddhism ......
I currently realized Buddhism is realization of own existence and realizing that emotion is cause of existence .....as one awaken to this path , one emotion will be gradually reduced so all desire / love / fear / worry / hate etc will gradually decreases ......so if one created emotion say have desire " to learn" or " to have intention for something" , this will lead into creation of more emotion ...and this will caused longer journey .......just like if you in a river , you can swim away from the sea , you can stay holding on something in the river but you can never get out from the river ...you regardless how long it takes , regardless what you do , you will end up in the sea .........so if you swimming hard against the current , you can only suffer of fatigue but still you can never get out from the river ...no matter how you resist , you can only suffer and yet sooner or later you will end up in the sea ...but if you created intention to go to the sea and you swim as hard as fast as you can ...still you can only suffer of fatigue because there is no sea ..........the sea is always is you..........Buddhism is realization not determination .The Buddhist path is realisation, for the sake of all beings. You are clearly very happy with your insight. Now how are you going to use it? Buddhism is realization ...not a choice .......and regardless what is one path is all in Buddhism .....is all part of one learning process .....I do not " happy or un-happy" with my current understanding , it is the condition I am in now , is my emotion currently and what to use for ? For what ? ........is realization on my emotion and I did not understand your meaning of "Now how are you going to use it?" ...there is no purpose of awakening to Buddhism , no purpose of realizing own existence and I am puzzled of your question ...please explain Buddhism is dropping the self, and compassion. So an end to suffering for yourself, must mean wanting that for all beings right? What is your way to that? I do not quite understand you on this , please explain What is your answer? As human in my culture , his action does not harm anyone so I just watched ....in Buddhism concept as I currently understand , even Osama Bin Laden action killing thousand of people is never right or wrong , because in Buddhism he is in his learning process discovering his emotion ...his action will be a great learning lesson for him to discover emotion and his action is same as Dalai Lama giving talks , that he had provide a great learning lesson to all the victim or the victim family and to all to discover their emotion of hate , anger , love , fear .........In my current understanding of Buddhism, all action regardless it nature is a great learning source for me to discover my emotions |
|
|
|
Post by noessentialnature on Sept 13, 2014 17:56:15 GMT 1
...there is no purpose of awakening to Buddhism , no purpose of realizing own existence and I am puzzled of your question ...please explain The four noble truths - if you accept them, the purpose is the end of suffering. If you do not, it is hard to see how you can be practicing Buddhism. I do not quite understand you on this , please explain You imply just doing your practice, with no motivation. But whenever a thing is done, causality & theory of mind imply motivation. It is logically meaningless to talk of consistent organised activity as arising without motivation. You talk about your own practice with no regard for what others practice. That can only work to end your suffering, not that of all beings. If you accept deconstructing the self, that we are not separate and Independant or continuous, as we tend to assume in everyday thought and language, then you must be concerned with the welfare of other beings than yourself as part of being concerned with your own welfare - which by taking action on it you are demonstrating motivation to do. As human in my culture , his action does not harm anyone so I just watched ....in Buddhism concept as I currently understand , even Osama Bin Laden action killing thousand of people is never right or wrong , because in Buddhism he is in his learning process discovering his emotion ...his action will be a great learning lesson for him to discover emotion and his action is same as Dalai Lama giving talks , that he had provide a great learning lesson to all the victim or the victim family and to all to discover their emotion of hate , anger , love , fear .........In my current understanding of Buddhism, all action regardless it nature is a great learning source for me to discover my emotions In Zen they differentiate between a great teacher and a lesser one, who are both enlightened, not due to their insight into the true nature of things, which is the same. But through the skilfulness if their means. We all have the potential to be Buddhas, yet only some are called this. To be awake is to take actions which are not self-defeating of their motivations by their consequences. All activity and experience are opportunities to understand not being self-defeating, to end suffering and grasping. But not all activities and experience aim or result in doing this - they are not all equal, not all directions are directed towards an end to suffering, or arise from being awake to our situation. Osama Bin Laden himself may become an enlightened being one day, but he will still have to face his karma - much suffering and fear that he brought into the world. It was unskilful, even if he chose that karma for the sake of all beings, because it did not work towards its aims. You feel clearly, by equating Osama Bin Laden and the Dalai Lama that you have attained a unique insight, which people only reject because they don't have such a developed concept of Oneness as you. But that is like saying everything in the world is food, and you should take whatever is in front of you to eat for dinner. Similarly with spiritual nourishment, you are directing a diet of stones and excrement all mixed with food. Each moment is a moment for flourishing, for nourishing the whole situation, but that has to be understood in terms of this very moment, not as part of a complex edifice of thought and self and outcomes and consequences. But, right now, acting as part of everything. That is oneness and emptiness. Not turning aside from concern with all affairs, but being alive to them, awake to them, in this very moment. Namaste |
|
|
|
Post by csee on Sept 15, 2014 1:34:22 GMT 1
Dear noessentialnature you said " The four noble truths - if you accept them, the purpose is the end of suffering. If you do not, it is hard to see how you can be practicing Buddhism." Un-quote
So you accept Buddhism because you want to end suffering ? And by accepting Buddhism Buddhism teaching , one will suffering will reduced ?
I need to explore your reason before I could share my current understanding
|
|
|
|
Post by csee on Sept 15, 2014 1:45:02 GMT 1
Dear noessentialnature you said " You imply just doing your practice, with no motivation. But whenever a thing is done, causality & theory of mind imply motivation. It is logically meaningless to talk of consistent organised activity as arising without motivation.
You talk about your own practice with no regard for what others practice. That can only work to end your suffering, not that of all beings. If you accept deconstructing the self, that we are not separate and Independant or continuous, as we tend to assume in everyday thought and language, then you must be concerned with the welfare of other beings than yourself as part of being concerned with your own welfare - which by taking action on it you are demonstrating motivation to do." Un-quote
Perhaps is not " motivation" as motivation is reflection of expression of knowledge and emotion. Awaken to emotion and Buddhism perhaps one will in realization and constant condition of being " alone" , realizing " no other" and as one will act in realization of knowledge and of emotion not confusion of knowledge or emotion .
|
|
|
|
Post by csee on Sept 15, 2014 2:07:14 GMT 1
Dear noessentialnature , you said " In Zen they differentiate between a great teacher and a lesser one, who are both enlightened, not due to their insight into the true nature of things, which is the same. But through the skilfulness if their means. We all have the potential to be Buddhas, yet only some are called this. To be awake is to take actions which are not self-defeating of their motivations by their consequences. All activity and experience are opportunities to understand not being self-defeating, to end suffering and grasping. But not all activities and experience aim or result in doing this - they are not all equal, not all directions are directed towards an end to suffering, or arise from being awake to our situation. Osama Bin Laden himself may become an enlightened being one day, but he will still have to face his karma - much suffering and fear that he brought into the world. It was unskilful, even if he chose that karma for the sake of all beings, because it did not work towards its aims." Un-quote
Yes , is true if one based on knowledge or "Buddhism teaching" as a referral , awaken to Buddhism , you are "Osama" , you are the "victim" ...Osama or the victim or you is all in learning process , discovering each emotion . One is not living in Osama path but awaken of just learning from his action ......
|
|
