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Post by csee on Jan 24, 2015 0:34:09 GMT 1
There are two kinds or levels of compassion, relative and ultimate. You will notice I mentioned that compassion can be expressed as emotion, but this is an early stage, and not the true goal or meaning of compassion. This is relative compassion. Also compassion can be understood and talked about, that is also relative compassion. But most of my post dealt with ultimate compassion, which is direct and non-conceptual experience. When I say it is knowing, that means having this direct and non-conceptual experience, and does not mean knowledge the way you are using the term. I have come to believe that everything you write about is conceptual, because you are so eager to disagree with and debate people. That is intellectual energy at work. Non-conceptual realization occurs in profound silence and the experience generally makes people less competitive and less excited about arguing with others and defeating them in debate. Dear Matt , good morning ...why only two kinds or levels of compassion ? Perhaps is your emotion on holding on to your current knowledge that had limit your exploration .....in my current compassion is condition of mind that continue of changing as one travel with the life .
Dear Matt , yes I agree and I had even admitted to you I am still full of pollutant of desire / eager etc ...as I realized I am a human and my current condition ...thanks for reminding me . |
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matt
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Post by matt on Jan 24, 2015 5:39:04 GMT 1
csee wrote: Dear Matt , yes I agree and I had even admitted to you I am still full of pollutant of desire / eager etc ...as I realized I am a human and my current condition ...thanks for reminding me .
Of course you are an imperfect human as am I, as are we all. It is impossible to escape this condition, and you shouldn't try.
What seems insincere about your writing to me is this effort to leap frog past your own humanity into some kind of purely speculative super-human experience.
Having compassion for others, feeling empathy for them, this is even at this relative level, such an important part of our human experience.
You don't talk to us like a human being. You talk at us as someone who has appointed themselves the rightful critic of Buddhist teachers, not because you have attained enlightenment, but because you have imagined what that means, and their way of being does not fit your imaginings and expectations.
What crock of sh*t, csee!
Be human, let yourself live, love and care for others. Life is short! I am all for experiencing the emptiness of emotions, if you can, but you can't think and talk your way past them.
Stop demanding people awaken to some imaginary state and just connect with them as one flawed person to another. Talk to them, listen to them and empathize.
This constant attempt to provoke and defeat everyone you encounter is so dysfunctional.
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Post by csee on Jan 24, 2015 17:24:03 GMT 1
csee wrote: Dear Matt , yes I agree and I had even admitted to you I am still full of pollutant of desire / eager etc ...as I realized I am a human and my current condition ...thanks for reminding me . Of course you are an imperfect human as am I, as are we all. It is impossible to escape this condition, and you shouldn't try. What seems insincere about your writing to me is this effort to leap frog past your own humanity into some kind of purely speculative super-human experience. Again , sorry in advance , if you read your writing over and over again , perhaps you will notice that you always judge me based on your emotion of me and that is common human culture ......I notice there are a few different mind in your above phase :-
You mention we are " imperfect human" .
I currently have no reason to agree with you as I realized Buddhism is beyond comparison of good verses bad , right verses wrong , true verses false or perfect verses imperfect .......all these comparison is created by human culture based on human knowledge . Buddhism is beyond knowledge .......and if human still holding on to their knowledge , they are actually tie their leg to the poll and suffering of their own action . Human trying to be perfect and Dalai Lama is always promoting people into this path ....to me this culture will lead into longer journey into self realization . Buddhism is about realization not determination of knowledge ......and again sorry in advance ,awaken to Buddhism , one will only learn from others never creates any desire to judge or have any reason to teach ...if I saw a monk carrying Dalai Lama picture on his head and chatting all day just to be him , I just learn from his action and discovering my emotion in him without judging him or trying to teach him .......his action regardless the nature is always a great source of discovery for me . ..so in my current mind of Buddhism , all action / re-action / happening regardless the direct words of Siddharta , or the action of a serial killer killing my love one or the nature of a pen on the table is all great source of discovery ...awaken to Buddhism , you only see you in me ...I am never exist .....is always you with your emotion in your world .Having compassion for others, feeling empathy for them, this is even at this relative level, such an important part of our human experience. You don't talk to us like a human being. You talk at us as someone who has appointed themselves the rightful critic of Buddhist teachers, not because you have attained enlightenment, but because you have imagined what that means, and their way of being does not fit your imaginings and expectations. What crock of sh*t, csee! Dear Matt , perhaps I am wrong if so I am glad but I realized you are getting more and more suffering over my writing ........seems to me you are hurting yourself more and more . Dear Matt , I do not know why you keep on focusing on me instead of our topic of discussion ......again I feel I need to share some of my personal story for you to awaken to your own emotion . Dear Matt , I am here in a process discovering my emotion , my fear , my love , my desire as I realized death could happens anytime to me or any of my love one .....as I currently full of pollutant , full of desire , full of love , lots of greed etc ...I realized I am always in condition to discover about the emotion
...awaken to my existence , I realized all these emotion is the cause of my existence and all my joy or suffering is the nature of my existence ........as I discuss / debate with others like you , I learnt and discover my emotion more and more ........I learnt and forgetting my emotion ....
do you actually think I am here to gain reputation ? Dear Matt ......if you awaken to death , awaken to your emotion of loving someone , awaken to emotion that one day you will lose them .....nothing in the world could be more important than Buddhism . ..I sincerely hope you could get out from living in my life and start to notice yours .........life is not owned by us , life is just a road we travel .....is never attached to us , is just something we use just like we use a pen to write or car for us to travel .........
Dear Matt , in our current culture if Bill Gates wear a watch worth a few dollars , millions of people will think that watch is worth millions .....but if a beggar had a watch worth thousands on his hand , millions of people will think that watch is rubbish ....that is human culture .......so you are just living the culture and that is very common .
Dear Matt , I am not here to get attention , I am not here to influence others to agree with me , I am not here because I think I am right or thinking you are wrong ......I am here as my condition of learning from others .... I hope you realized whatever you imagined of me is actually originated from your emotion ,because you are actually alone in the journey of your choice of your will in your world .....Be human, let yourself live, love and care for others. Life is short! I am all for experiencing the emptiness of emotions, if you can, but you can't think and talk your way past them. Dear Matt , awaken to Buddhism one will live the life not living in the life with culture or knowledge . Life is just a road not the driver .......human live the life as the life driven by culture ...Buddhism is realization of the cause of having the life , not the way to fill the life .......Life is short as our desire are endless , awaken to Buddhism , one will realized beyond life , beyond acceptance of life . In my current mind , emptiness is a condition freedom of emotion so how could one be posibilly experience " emptiness" while still hold on to emotion ?
Stop demanding people awaken to some imaginary state and just connect with them as one flawed person to another. Talk to them, listen to them and empathize. This constant attempt to provoke and defeat everyone you encounter is so dysfunctional. I am truly sorry if any of my writing seems rude or provoke anyone here ....I never creates any emotion for anything except with a condition of learning from others . Perhaps awaken to own emotion , learning no longer is resulted from desire to know or emotion for gaining knowledge ...awaken to own emotion , learning is a condition readiness of change as one awaken to the natural process of Buddhism . For years ,Is common happening to me that many people will get mad at me and break off from debating with me , perhaps this is not happening here ... I had learned so much from you and if you stay and continue to debate , certainly I will learn more . Thanks for the lesson .
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matt
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Post by matt on Jan 24, 2015 19:27:31 GMT 1
Even as I wrote those very strong statements I felt very calm. So you don't have to worry about my state of mind, it is very stable.
I do think your writing can be very rude. I think it would be better for you and your readers if you made a more conscious effort to respect them and their beliefs, and any feeling they may have for their teachers.
And I think it would help you to ask your self, honestly, in privacy of your own mind, why do you write and post?
This position that you are learning from others is really disingenuous, sure it may stir up some emotion you can then let go of, but that is learning from your self.
If you want to say honestly you are corresponding with people to learn from them, then you would have to have genuine respect for them, for us, as we are, and it is pretty obvious you do not always feel that.
You "here as condition of learning from others," is not the real truth. It just isn't. You do want attention, and the way you go about getting it is dysfunctional.
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matt
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Post by matt on Jan 24, 2015 20:35:46 GMT 1
In this thread I am trying different approaches--such as analyzing your psychology, using strong language, talking to you plainly, and appealing to your humanity-- in an attempt to cut through all the noise, and help you see what is the real deception.
The source of the deception is your own intellect. It is the noise in your head that spills onto the page of Buddhist forums like a ruptured sewer line.
It is in the things you say to yourself and others, especially the way you think and talk about your self.
Of course the Dalai Lama is not going to debate you, csee. That, if nothing else, should tell you how unrealistic your outlook and your view of yourself has become.
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matt
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Post by matt on Jan 24, 2015 20:42:57 GMT 1
Don't you ever want to just talk to someone, mano-a-mano, human to human? Make some kind of connection that is non-competitive? Take a deep breath, and tell us about your self. What was it like growing up a Chinese boy in Malaysia? That would be very interesting to me. It is so different than growing up a white boy in Idaho, I am sure… Tell us about it, please.  |
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Post by csee on Jan 24, 2015 23:21:34 GMT 1
Even as I wrote those very strong statements I felt very calm. So you don't have to worry about my state of mind, it is very stable. I do think your writing can be very rude. I think it would be better for you and your readers if you made a more conscious effort to respect them and their beliefs, and any feeling they may have for their teachers. And I think it would help you to ask your self, honestly, in privacy of your own mind, why do you write and post? This position that you are learning from others is really disingenuous, sure it may stir up some emotion you can then let go of, but that is learning from your self. If you want to say honestly you are corresponding with people to learn from them, then you would have to have genuine respect for them, for us, as we are, and it is pretty obvious you do not always feel that. You "here as condition of learning from others," is not the real truth. It just isn't. You do want attention, and the way you go about getting it is dysfunctional. Dear Matt , I am glad that you are not mad but reading this reply it is apparent that we both are of different mind as such I sincerely think you are a very-very great source for me to learn . Let me explain again :-
Awaken to my emotion and this natural process of existence , I currently realized that I am alone in my world and is only ME- The nothingness / Buddha and my cause of existence - The emotion , nothing else exist .You like any other living or non-living is never exist in ME or MY EMOTION .....but is just a great source for discovery of my emotion and my original nature .
That is my realization but I am still very far from accepting it and still very much suffering from love / greed / ego / desire / fear etc ...as I realized I am still a human living in human culture .
I currently realized that for human Buddhism is a natural process that involve a continue process by being awake , aware , realize , accept and continue to aware ......
So I am more and more realized that nothing could hurt me except my own attachment on emotion ......even if someone kill my dearest one still his action is actually provide me a chance of discovering my emotion , still he is a great teacher to me ...that is my realization but if this happens to me now , I will surely pull his head off and kill him with my own hand because currently I still full of pollutants , still full of love / desire / greed etc .
So Dear Matt , I am sorry of not being or trying to understand what feeling might others have regards to my writing ...because I do not enter others mind trying to imagine what others mind might be , I am just fully aware of my condition of mind ...I am in a condition of learning without holding any other intention . To me currently , as you have said you never hurt by my writing perhaps because of your realization ,if so I have reason to say that perhaps others could be at your level of understanding and never hurt by my writing ............... |
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Post by csee on Jan 24, 2015 23:47:19 GMT 1
In this thread I am trying different approaches--such as analyzing your psychology, using strong language, talking to you plainly, and appealing to your humanity-- in an attempt to cut through all the noise, and help you see what is the real deception. The source of the deception is your own intellect. It is the noise in your head that spills onto the page of Buddhist forums like a ruptured sewer line. It is in the things you say to yourself and others, especially the way you think and talk about your self. Of course the Dalai Lama is not going to debate you, csee. That, if nothing else, should tell you how unrealistic your outlook and your view of yourself has become. Dear matt , apparently you have intention to change me , to teach me and to influence me into your understanding .....as such we are of two different mind . I currently of the mind that I could never have any reason to teach anything or anyone about Buddhism simply because Buddhism is not knowledge ...Buddhism is a natural process of own realization of own existence / cause of own existence ......awaken to emotion , I realized that all happening regardless words by Dalai Lama or action by a serial killer or a nature of a table is all same great source of discovery for my emotion ......so I am not having same intention as you here , even I am here not with desire to learn but learning is the condition of my current mind ...awaken to Buddhism I realized that , I never owned " my mind" , the mind is constantly flowing like the water in the river ..constantly in motion of changing ...I am different person each moment ......each moment I " die" and re-birth .....and by holding on to the mind , I am actually building a wall to block the flow and if so I am just creating suffering as I could never block the flow ...the flow of mind could never be stopped ...Buddhism could never be stopped , is never a choice to stopped this process of travelling back to the original state .
Dear Matt , I know Dalai Lama never have time or desire to read my posting as I am not of any important person ......but awaken to own emotion , I realized he is me ......you is me .......the cat on the street is me .......the rubbish on the floor is me .......so why are you hold on to your knowledge and live by the knowledge you gain..? Awaken to own emotion perhaps one will have no special emotion for any special being ........no special emotion for " own daughter" because he realized he never own the girl ...never have special emotion for "own body" because he realized the body is never belong to him ....so awaken to this , Dalai Lama is same as Matt , same as me , same as any human , same as any animal / plant / micro-orgsm , same as any non-living like Pepsi can ......
so who is Dalai Lama ? Your knowledge of your current society will tell you .
What is Dalai Lama ? Your realization will lead you to realize that is you , Dalai Lama is you , the pen is you , me is you .......if you need me to explain further please let me know . |
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Post by csee on Jan 24, 2015 23:56:14 GMT 1
Don't you ever want to just talk to someone, mano-a-mano, human to human? Make some kind of connection that is non-competitive? Take a deep breath, and tell us about your self. What was it like growing up a Chinese boy in Malaysia?That would be very interesting to me. It is so different than growing up a white boy in Idaho, I am sure… Tell us about it, please. Dear Matt ...sorry in advance , is never about me here , is never about my living , I am just in condition of discovering my emotion from you if you have interest of knowing me ( I do not know why there is a need ) please talk to me in private by my email 1988csee@gmail.com
I had tell you so much of my past , of my depression of fearing death that lead me to Buddhism and I sincerely have reason the believe my story is never important in this debate ... I hope we could continue sharing our differences and for that I had learn so much from you ...
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matt
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Post by matt on Jan 25, 2015 1:01:46 GMT 1
Your "realization" is that you are alone in the world with your thoughts and emotions, when I speak to you, instead of hearing me, your mind creates an impression whose only importance is how it effects your thoughts or emotions? I only matter to you in terms of what you can learn from our dialogue, about yourself and your own condition?
I would say,
We have never been separate, but rather have the habit of creating the illusion of separateness.
Just as judgements like good and bad, better or worse only have relative meaning, the same is true for disagreement.
You always say," Let's debate this!" or point out, "I can not see any reason to agree," with this or that.
Can you see how that is illusion?
There is no disagreement. There has never been disagreement. Do your fingers disagree with your hand?
Why are you so eager to argue and disagree?
Obviously, it is not because of realization.
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Post by csee on Jan 25, 2015 2:45:06 GMT 1
Your "realization" is that you are alone in the world with your thoughts and emotions, when I speak to you, instead of hearing me, your mind creates an impression whose only importance is how it effects your thoughts or emotions? I only matter to you in terms of what you can learn from our dialogue, about yourself and your own condition? Thanks for still giving chance for me to learn. Yes... you are closer to my emotion . Awaken to emotion , I realized is only ME- The nothingness / The Buddha / The original state ...and EMOTION - the cause of my existence / the cause of life .......and when you speak to me , as human I listen to you as you listen to me , but in the same time I realized you are just like wind flowing by .........I experience your words , I seeing my emotion in yours and discovering the emotion that I hold , you like and others living or non-living is never ME or MY EMOTION ........never part of ME or MY EMOTION ........just someone in the same bus towards same destination .
Awaken to own emotion and the natural process that I realized , is always the emotion I hold of you that determine who you are , is always emotion I hold whether to judge you as a friend or enemy , a good person or bad person ......you like a piece of white paper , is always my desire / my wish to draw , to paint to any vision that I hold .......awaken to my cause of existence , I never enter in your life , never living in " my own" life ...life is just like a road we use to travel , just like a pen we use to write ..........so Dear Matt , is not " a matter" of " my self or my condition"....but is all about it , I am here because of my emotion and because of my condition of learning .
I would say, We have never been separate, but rather have the habit of creating the illusion of separateness. Just as judgements like good and bad, better or worse only have relative meaning, the same is true for disagreement. You always say," Let's debate this!" or point out, "I can not see any reason to agree," with this or that. Can you see how that is illusion? There is no disagreement. There has never been disagreement. Do your fingers disagree with your hand? Why are you so eager to argue and disagree? Obviously, it is not because of realization. Again , sorry in advance I have reason to believe you are entering my life and confused over your way out from my life . Perhaps that is your reason to say " we have never been separate"......let me explain .
Awaken to own emotion and the natural process of Buddhism , one will realized the separation of knowledge , culture , emotion , the original state of nothingness ...one will realized Buddhism is just like if you put a spoon of sand in a glass of clear water .........the sand will sink to the bottom of the glass , if you stir the water , the sand will be all over the glass , the harder you stir , the faster the sand will travel ....but in the same time , the sand is constantly in a natural process of settling down ...so as soon you stop stirring it , the sand will sink at the bottom and there will be separation of water and sand .....the water will be water and sand will be sand ....water is clear again .
So the sand / the water / the glass / the spoon / the hand is the condition ......the action of stirring is emotion .........emotions or condition is never related ....as the emotion vanished , the condition stopped .......and the process of settling down is Buddhism .......Buddha is nothingness , without the condition , without emotion .
So Dear Matt , sorry in advance , you like Dalai Lama is just the condition .....I am still my emotion , my nature is nothingness ......
But......
I currently of the mind that in human culture , human confused over own knowledge ...human becoming the part of the condition itself ..and human confused over their own nature .....human becoming the condition they choose to be in .....human building their own cage and suffering to be free .......
Dear Matt , I am not here with desire to learn from you but learning is the condition of my current mind .... I am discovering my emotion from this debate and as I travel with you as the condition , I am freeing my emotion .... so as we debate , my emotion will be gradually and naturally decreased ..
Perhaps I am eager to argue ...but I realized my eagerness is not resulted by creation of more emotion but is the condition of my current mind so in short I am challenging my emotion , challenging my views ....not to question your path ...I never in your path , your path is always the condition , I am still emotion .
In my current mind , there is nothing " obvious" of anything ....because there is no referral to hold .........all happening is just a great source of discovery
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matt
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Post by matt on Jan 25, 2015 6:49:01 GMT 1
I understand you are not here to learn "from" me or anyone else. You have developed an air-tight defense against learning anything from anyone. You seem to believe you really have attained some realized state that means you are never in the "same mind," as you were a moment ago, so I guess you don't notice how much you repeat yourself. You believe "Buddhism a natural state of realization," so study or practice of any kind is an anathema to your vision of true Buddhism. Teaching Buddhism is misleading people.
Posting provocative messages and long, repetitive explanations is somehow not a contradiction to your version of Buddhism as long as they come from you, though. You constantly beg people to "debate" you, but you refuse to consider anything they say that you decide is an attempt to change or teach you, and everything else contradicts your own "current understanding." You don't ever seem to notice when your own inconsistencies have been pointed out.
I suppose that is because you want to believe you are never in the same mind. Your only interest in me or anyone else seems to be that we can stir up emotions, so you can let them go and get closer to the "original state of nothing." Which you believe is the natural process of life already, but somehow it can be sped up by antagonizing people on Buddhist forums, or slowed down by teaching Buddhism or practicing compassion. I guess sped up is better, huh? Getting back to nothing quicker is better? Oh yeah, nothing is better than anything else. So why are you here? That's okay, please don't explain it again. Reading it for the thousandth time won't make it any less depressing.
You are alone in your world, and your process. There is only you.
It is funny how in some ways what you believe is so close to Buddhism, and yet in other ways it is so different. The difference is really just in 2 words: nothing and alone. What a difference 2 words can make. It sounds really lonely and scary, and I think on a deep level you are afraid of your own "truths."
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matt
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Post by matt on Jan 25, 2015 7:53:13 GMT 1
Got this via email a few seconds ago. Seems appropriate to this thread
Rigpa Glimpse of the Day, January 25
The compassionate wish to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all others is called Bodhicitta in Sanskrit: bodhi refers to our enlightened essence, and citta means “heart.” So we could translate it as “the heart of our enlightened mind.” To awaken and develop the heart of the enlightened mind is to ripen steadily the seed of our buddha nature, that seed that, in the end, when our practice of compassion has become perfect and all-embracing, will flower majestically into buddhahood. Bodhicitta, then, is the spring and source and root of the entire spiritual path. This is why in our tradition we pray with such urgency:
Those who haven’t yet given birth to precious Bodhicitta,
May they give birth,
Those who have given birth,
May their Bodhicitta not lessen
but increase further and further.
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Post by csee on Jan 25, 2015 8:17:21 GMT 1
I understand you are not here to learn "from" me or anyone else. You have developed an air-tight defense against learning anything from anyone. Dear Matt , can you read my writing carefully to avoid mis-understanding from your part ? I had explain to you that I am learning from you and others here but I never created desire to learn instead learning is the condition of me now . Awaken to own emotion and the natural process of Buddhism , one will always in a condition readiness of change because he never holds any faith or beliefs .......awaken to own emotion , one will never have any intention to defend own view as he never hold any faith ....apparently you had mis-understand me and I hope you could read my writing before creates image of me in you .You seem to believe you really have attained some realized state that means you are never in the "same mind," as you were a moment ago, so I guess you don't notice how much you repeat yourself. You believe "Buddhism a natural state of realization," so study or practice of any kind is an anathema to your vision of true Buddhism. Teaching Buddhism is misleading people. Posting provocative messages and long, repetitive explanations is somehow not a contradiction to your version of Buddhism as long as they come from you, though. You constantly beg people to "debate" you, but you refuse to consider anything they say that you decide is an attempt to change or teach you, and everything else contradicts your own "current understanding." You don't ever seem to notice when your own inconsistencies have been pointed out. Dear Matt , firstly you seems have very different mind with me .....If I am in a moving train , you call me asking me where I am .....is never possible I told you the exact location because the train is in motion / moving .....so if I in-consistent with "my own" understanding that is because I am always moving ...always changing ... I never holds any faith or holds any understanding ....I always used the word " current" is expression of that particular moment ........... I die and re-birth each moment , I will never be the same each moment in time ......
You claimed I refuse to consider what other say ......why do you holds such beliefs ? Again , why are you still keeping me in your life , entering my life and confused the way out ? Dear Matt , let me explain and I hope you read ...
Awaken to own emotion and Buddhism , one will travel with realization of his original nature and his cause of existence ....he will be in awake state , awaken and aware , aware and realize , realize and accept , accept and continue aware ....so each moment he learn and discover own emotion .....all happening is actually caused changes in his emotion that he will never realized as he never hold any faith or beliefs .......so he will travel into this journey without past and without imagination of future ......he will live with the moment .....
So , Dear Matt .....I realized I am in Buddhism and changing is the nature of Buddhism not by my choice .......but if I choose to hold on to any beliefs or faith , I am just causing more suffering , longer journey into my realization .
Dear Matt , in my current mind ( Now ) , Buddhism is just like if you are in a river and you cant get out from the water ....if you choose to swim against the current or away from the current , you will only suffering of fatigue because regardless what you do , you will end up in the sea ....but if you choose to swim with the current towards the sea ...still you will only suffer of fatigue because there is no sea ...the sea is you , so Buddhism is realization not determination of knowledge .
Buddhism is all about own realization ....is you realizing your existence , cause of your existence but seems to me you are living in my room and complaining my house is too small .......why dont you go back realizing your house ......sorry if I am rude here .
I suppose that is because you want to believe you are never in the same mind. Your only interest in me or anyone else seems to be that we can stir up emotions, so you can let them go and get closer to the "original state of nothing." Which you believe is the natural process of life already, but somehow it can be sped up by antagonizing people on Buddhist forums, or slowed down by teaching Buddhism or practicing compassion. I guess sped up is better, huh? Getting back to nothing quicker is better? Oh yeah, nothing is better than anything else. So why are you here? That's okay, please don't explain it again. Reading it for the thousandth time won't make it any less depressing. If I look at my koi fish , I am learning / discovering my emotion of love , greed , ego , pride , desire without talking to them or asking them for a debate ....if I look at a pen on the table , I am learning / discovering their nature based on information that I learn and discovering my greed , desire , ego etc ....I never could challenge a pen for debate because the pen could not respond in same communication with me ........I am in internet and debate with you is just like finding condition of realization .........by debating with you , I had explore my mind into areas that I never been and perhaps leading into further realization of my emotion .
You are alone in your world, and your process. There is only you. It is funny how in some ways what you believe is so close to Buddhism, and yet in other ways it is so different. The difference is really just in 2 words: nothing and alone. What a difference 2 words can make. It sounds really lonely and scary, and I think on a deep level you are afraid of your own "truths." Perhaps afraid if we do not know but have desire to know ...what is that to afraid if knowing is never important ? What is that to be afraid if I do not have emotion of any referral of any truth ? Dear Matt ...sorry in advance .....very sorry in advance , if you are searching the person you see in the mirror , you cant find him because that person is you . As one awaken to own emotion , as he travel his emotion will be decreased never increased so do you still think he will holds any emotion of ego ? ....Buddhism is a natural process " letting go" or " forgetting" who you are and realizing what are you ......not creating more emotion with pride or joy ...as one awaken to Buddhism all emotion are from same source .
What you do on this forum and others is a kind of Trolling, even if that is not your intention. Unfortunately, the moderator seems to have abandoned his forum, because I do think the kindest thing we could do for you is to ban your from it. I think I can see where your beliefs could result from and would perpetuate neurosis, but talking to you is useless, so I will wish you well from inner silence. Dear matt , this is normal happening to me ...people do feel hurt during debate ...sincerely I always accept others is my teacher , because I realized all happening is a great source of discovery for me .....Dear Matt , many member in many website after debating with me will report to moderator and had caused me being ban from most of the major Buddhism website ...I hope this is not happening to me here .
If you have interest to debate with me or if you could recommend any teacher for me to debate , please let me know via my email : 1988csee@gmail.com
I am sincerely learning from you without any other intention , please stay and continue sharing our differences . We do not need to agree in fact with dis-agreement I am learning more from you ... |
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Post by csee on Jan 25, 2015 8:25:23 GMT 1
Got this via email a few seconds ago. Seems appropriate to this thread Rigpa Glimpse of the Day, January 25 The compassionate wish to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all others is called Bodhicitta in Sanskrit: bodhi refers to our enlightened essence, and citta means “heart.” So we could translate it as “the heart of our enlightened mind.” To awaken and develop the heart of the enlightened mind is to ripen steadily the seed of our buddha nature, that seed that, in the end, when our practice of compassion has become perfect and all-embracing, will flower majestically into buddhahood. Bodhicitta, then, is the spring and source and root of the entire spiritual path. This is why in our tradition we pray with such urgency: Those who haven’t yet given birth to precious Bodhicitta, May they give birth, Those who have given birth, May their Bodhicitta not lessen but increase further and further. Thanks for sharing perhaps you could share your own reason of beliefs ... |
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matt
Senior Member
Posts: 425
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Post by matt on Jan 25, 2015 19:37:18 GMT 1
Got this via email a few seconds ago. Seems appropriate to this thread Rigpa Glimpse of the Day, January 25 The compassionate wish to attain enlightenment for the benefit of all others is called Bodhicitta in Sanskrit: bodhi refers to our enlightened essence, and citta means “heart.” So we could translate it as “the heart of our enlightened mind.” To awaken and develop the heart of the enlightened mind is to ripen steadily the seed of our buddha nature, that seed that, in the end, when our practice of compassion has become perfect and all-embracing, will flower majestically into buddhahood. Bodhicitta, then, is the spring and source and root of the entire spiritual path. This is why in our tradition we pray with such urgency: Those who haven’t yet given birth to precious Bodhicitta, May they give birth, Those who have given birth, May their Bodhicitta not lessen but increase further and further. Thanks for sharing perhaps you could share your own reason of beliefs ...Oh I don't really believe it. You and I are seem to be alike in that, csee. For me the above is just words. If I wrote a long passage on how a banana tastes, and someone asked me if I believed this is how a banana tastes, of course I would have to say no, it is nothing like the taste of a banana, it is just words on a page. On the other hand I understand what the above passage is saying, and I can see and feel something like what it describes happening, so it makes sense that way, too. Belief or non-belief is irrelevant to me, but I respect it can be very important to others, and somehow I know how that feels to them. I am not sure how I know, whether it is memory or something else, some other source of empathy, probably a combination of things. Like I said before a lot of what you write sounds familiar to me, makes sense to me. The difference comes down to 2 words, nothing and alone, but what a difference 2 words can make. I love being solitary, sitting in meditation or working by myself with no distractions, but I could never be alone, because nothing is separate. In fact everything is the source of profound connection to everyone and everything. I also love spending time with others, more and more what I feel for others is very light and very positive. As far as nothing is concerned, nothing is a concept. If one aims for emptiness and finds nothing, then one has fallen back into or more likely never gotten through ideas. Its just more noise. But the possibility of annihilation frightens the subconscious, and this can cause a lot of weird, passive aggressive behavior in people. So it is definitely better not to tell your self you will be nothing, unless you understand even on a very deep level that it really means no thing, and not some kind of vacuum. |
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matt
Senior Member
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Post by matt on Jan 25, 2015 20:21:15 GMT 1
I watched a light hearted detective show the other night on TV. The main character, a police detective, was very cynical and an alcoholic and a slob. One of his subordinates was not only a detective, but moonlighted on the weekends as a pastor for some new-age church. The main character hated him, and he was obnoxious because he was so schmaltzy and sweet. At one point the main character told the pastor how much he hated him. The pastor said, "You know, hate and love are the same energy. The only difference is in how you absorb it." After that every time the main character would insult the pastor, the pastor would say sincerely and enthusiastically, "Thank You, Detective!" as if he had just told him how much he loved him. The detective would then get mad and say, "Don't! Don't you do that!" It was funny, but you know, what the pastor was saying was very true. That is what emptiness means, and that is the difference between nothing and no thing. For Buddhists, love can be be very good. When Buddhists talk about love it does not mean an emotion, not the attachment or closeness people usually mean, but simply the sincere wish that others find lasting happiness and its causes. Of course love and hate are the same energy. The only difference is in how you absorb it. Funny, but true. |
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Post by csee on Jan 25, 2015 23:19:24 GMT 1
Oh I don't really believe it. You and I are seem to be alike in that, csee. For me the above is just words. If I wrote a long passage on how a banana tastes, and someone asked me if I believed this is how a banana tastes, of course I would have to say no, it is nothing like the taste of a banana, it is just words on a page. On the other hand I understand what the above passage is saying, and I can see and feel something like what it describes happening, so it makes sense that way, too. Belief or non-belief is irrelevant to me, but I respect it can be very important to others, and somehow I know how that feels to them. I am not sure how I know, whether it is memory or something else, some other source of empathy, probably a combination of things. Dear Matt , thanks for sharing .to me currently , there is nothing "to believe" or " not to believe" as all happening is just providing information , just like weather forecast ......it seems I do not have any faith or beliefs because I no longer have any "referral" in mind ......to me , if I have reason to agree that is only fit in my mind in a particular time not something that I hold on to as a referral.
Like I said before a lot of what you write sounds familiar to me, makes sense to me. The difference comes down to 2 words, nothing and alone, but what a difference 2 words can make. I love being solitary, sitting in meditation or working by myself with no distractions, but I could never be alone, because nothing is separate. In fact everything is the source of profound connection to everyone and everything. I also love spending time with others, more and more what I feel for others is very light and very positive. Yes , what you said is very true because we are in human culture and knowledge is the basis of this culture . We knows things , we knows the meaning of relationship , we knows "others" around us ........but in my current mind , Buddhism is not what we knows , is not information that we can hold on to ....Buddhism is you ...... ...is all about you .
Buddhism is just like a mirror showing your face to you ......and all these time you keep watching on others but awaken to Buddhism you will perhaps realized that you are actually alone ...travelling in your own path that never connected to others ....your mother that give birth to you , the relationship that you hold on to is all human creation .....the body that you call " Matt" is never connected to you ..is body is just like a pen you use to write ....awaken to emotion , you perhaps will realized that all these time , you are the emotion , you are the desire , you are the love , you are the fear , you are the greed ......and these emotion is the cause you travel in a journey known as life ...life is just a road you choose to travel ....if the road ends , that is just a condition you are still the emotion .....is very-very difficult even impossible to explain this to you because Buddhism is not knowledge ...how can one explain something that is not knowledge ? Buddhism is a process you will realized your existence and the cause you exist .
As far as nothing is concerned, nothing is a concept. If one aims for emptiness and finds nothing, then one has fallen back into or more likely never gotten through ideas. Its just more noise. But the possibility of annihilation frightens the subconscious, and this can cause a lot of weird, passive aggressive behavior in people. So it is definitely better not to tell your self you will be nothing, unless you understand even on a very deep level that it really means no thing, and not some kind of vacuum. Perhaps if you could read my previous posting about the river .....to me Buddhism is a process of realization not determination of knowledge ..."not telling" is same as " telling" ........." better" is same as " worst".......just live the life not filling in the life ........Buddhism to me currently is awakening to own nature , awakening to cause of own existence and nothing need explanation .....all happening happens because of Buddhism .....but currently I am still full of pollutant , still full of desire / love / fear...still curious of what my neighbor doing at night ........ |
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Post by csee on Jan 26, 2015 4:57:04 GMT 1
I watched a light hearted detective show the other night on TV. The main character, a police detective, was very cynical and an alcoholic and a slob. One of his subordinates was not only a detective, but moonlighted on the weekends as a pastor for some new-age church. The main character hated him, and he was obnoxious because he was so schmaltzy and sweet. At one point the main character told the pastor how much he hated him. The pastor said, "You know, hate and love are the same energy. The only difference is in how you absorb it." After that every time the main character would insult the pastor, the pastor would say sincerely and enthusiastically, "Thank You, Detective!" as if he had just told him how much he loved him. The detective would then get mad and say, "Don't! Don't you do that!" It was funny, but you know, what the pastor was saying was very true. That is what emptiness means, and that is the difference between nothing and no thing. For Buddhists, love can be be very good. When Buddhists talk about love it does not mean an emotion, not the attachment or closeness people usually mean, but simply the sincere wish that others find lasting happiness and its causes. Of course love and hate are the same energy. The only difference is in how you absorb it. Funny, but true. Dear Matt , thanks for sharing the story , Yes I can find reason to agree with you partially , yes I do realized that in human culture , human had defined their experiences into many names , define their livelihood into so many kind of relationship and getting so much problem in committing in such relationship ....human seems to creates their own cage but suffering to be free ........knowledge is resulted by human desire of wanting to know , wanting to fulfill their desire and indeed knowledge had caused confusion in human livelihood .
Human had developed a culture that defined their experiences into pain , fear , worry , sad , joy , desire , love , hate etc .....and with such knowledge , human had creating more emotion ......awaken to own emotion and the natural process of Buddhism , one will realized joy is same as sorrow same as desire , same as love ....same as hate ..all emotion are same ....and emotion is the cause of our existence , as long as we still attached to love , sad , desire , will , hate etc ..we will always exist .
To me currently , Buddhism is a natural process of all living or non-living travelling naturally back into original state ...is human freeing emotion , is animal freeing emotion to survive , is plant freeing causes to exist ...is metal rust ...is wood decay ....is car becoming scrap ...is all existence changing shapes , size , form and travelling into the original state of nothingness . All existence are originally nothing- Buddha ...so to me all existence is " Buddhist" but exist due to reason to exist and Buddhism is that process back into original state . Human will resist to accept Buddhism because of their culture that uses knowledge as the basis of judgement , they need to understand how , why , when ..all the reason that they could use their current knowledge to prove .
But ...Buddhism is not knowledge ...knowledge is just a tiny little part of the whole process of realization ...knowledge is just like a tiny piece of sand that in a structure of a building ...the sand is not the building ......human had indeed caged into a circle of own knowledge and suffering of own desire to get out .
Dear sir , awaken to Buddhism and emotion ...one will free of desire to know why , less reason to ask , less reason to love , less reason to hate , less reason to have intention .......simply because one awaken to aware of own emotion ...and please do not mis-understand I am such person , I am perhaps trillions light years from that condition ...I still have great desire for foods , beer , sex , money , love etc .....is always you asking to fulfill your desire , is always you stop exploring the reason , is always you make the choice to hate or to love ...is always you with your emotion ...others is just condition for you to discover your emotion ......all happening regardless their nature is just a condition / providing condition for discovery of own emotion ......
But .......
You always presented with choices , if you from Dallas want to go to New York , you can take a direct flight or you can travel to India , to Malaysia ,to Thailand , To South Afica , To Rusia , To China and back to New York.......the choice is always yours , because you are the choice . So if one choose to swim against the current , he need to swim as his choice for swimming ....he has choose his learning path ...just like Osama Bin Laden , he need to discover his emotion by killing thousand of people and this is his learning process . In our current culture , he is wrong / bad / evil but in the concept of Buddhism as I currently realized , he is in his process of Buddhism and his action is great source of discovery for all .....he is providing all a condition to discover own love , hate , ego ...he is a great teacher same as Dalai Lama .
Buddhism is not knowledge but if human trying to explain Buddhism with knowledge ...Buddhism will be a form of culture , the same culture that cause great suffering to human ........... |
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matt
Senior Member
Posts: 425
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Post by matt on Jan 26, 2015 19:09:35 GMT 1
Okay, you have given me a long explanation of what you understand. Why is that not trying to teach me? There is no difference. The following is based on teachings I have heard and understood, and was able to confirm with my own experience. Sometimes the experience has come before the understanding. Either way, words can describe experience, but they are not what they describe, they are just an attempt to communicate experience. It does us well to remember that, right? This is my present understanding. If it was possible for anything to become nothing, then certainly everything could become nothing or as you say return to nothing. I have said this before, nothing is a concept. It is a concept that is easy to mistake for what Buddhists say is the ultimate nature of all existence, emptiness, but it is as different from emptiness as duck. You might as well say everyone is naturally returning to the original state of duck. It has as much meaning and is as close to the truth as saying, "all existence returning to natural state of nothingness." Perhaps emptiness can be better understood using the terms existence and non-existence. Emptiness is shorthand for "empty of inherent existence." So the computer I am typing on has conventional existence. The dragon I am imagining in my mind has imaginary existence. Neither of these "objects" have inherent existence. Do they exist? No, not precisely, it is not a question of change precisely, certainly they are impermanent, but lets put that to one side because I am really talking about something different. Do they exist? No, not precisely. Do they not exist? No, not precisely. What you describe is that they exist, but they are becoming nothing, on their way to non-existence. Emptiness is not what they are becoming. Emptiness is what they are right now. The computer and the dragon have neither existence nor non-existence, right now. That is what emptiness means. The computer has conventional existence, there is a conventional agreement, very powerful, that it exists right now, and the dragon has imaginary existence, right now, but neither really exist, neither have inherent existence. Nor do they have non-existence. They are neither something nor nothing, because they have neither existence nor non-existence. Their ultimate nature, what they have always been, can be discovered precisely between these two conceptual poles: existence and non-existence. But it takes time and practice to experience their ultimate nature. You do not believe that practice matters, because you believe that something can become nothing, and this is a natural process. Buddhists are not waiting for things to change, everything is always changing, we practice patiently to realize what everything is right now, and has always been. If we say they (the computer or dragon) exist, we are either speaking about conventional reality, relative truth, or we are deluded. Existence is a concept, all of reality is conceptual this way. If we say they do not exist, that they are nothing, then this is equally delusional. Saying they will become nothing is as incorrect as saying they exist right now. Both are concepts, neither is the true nature. Nothing and something are both equally conceptual. Neither concept is what Buddhists consider ultimate reality. It is not about becoming nothing, which is good because that is as impossible as being something. It is about discovering, realizing your true nature, your ultimate nature, selflessness. This is not what you will become, it is not what you are on your way to becoming, it is what you are and always have been. It is what you always will be, and it is amazing and wonderful to say the least. Even in conventional terms the computer has not always been a computer. It was once just raw materials and ideas. It will not always be a computer. It will change forever. Its true nature is empty. It is empty, was always empty and will always be empty. Whatever conventional reality looks like, whatever the computer becomes, it will be empty. Emptiness is really wonderful to experience. |
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