brian
Senior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by brian on Jun 17, 2013 4:41:01 GMT 1
graham wrote
It is my feeling that the allure of samsara is simply too strong, that without an understanding of our actions and how they impact others, we will continue to be pulled into its powerful draw and creating more and more suffering.
Because of self cherishing, even if we ARE aware of actions causing more suffering for others, we may still go ahead with these negative actions anyways. Samsara IS very strong and understanding alone will not rescue us from it.
Karma & Samsara are interconnected. As long as there is longing to satisfy one's wants and desires, then one will never be truly enlightened. This is the biggest obstacle for many Buddhists.
Overcoming desire is very difficult b/c it surpasses much of our survivalist instincts and craving for physical comfort and pleasures. Our body is much more powerful and "needy" than our minds. This is the biggest reason why I feel it would be necessary to stay in a monastery for a while, to be completely free from materialistic and carnal desires. As long as I indulge in anything pleasurable, gluttonous, slothful, neglectful or any act of escapism, then I will be swirling in samsara and creating more negative, habitual karma.
But I indulge in all these things regardless of my mindfulness of the dharma. In this sense, I feel hopeless and unwilling to change. So I may always be a "fan" of Buddhism but never a real player.
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Post by Mandala on Jun 17, 2013 12:35:50 GMT 1
"we change not by force of will, but by paying attention and being compassionate to ourselves."
"The key, again, in the Buddhist sense, is not dissolving but developing the ego into a more flexible and permeable ego. This is considered a strong ego, capable of both surrender and function. The weak ego is the rigid, defensive one."
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Post by Rudy on Jun 17, 2013 14:17:41 GMT 1
Wow, excellent discussion so far  Just a few comments... Thank you Matt. And you are right, it is hard to give a name or category to whatever it is that stores karmic imprints etc. The problem with sub-consciousness is the definition in Buddhism of consciousness or mind: 'clear and knowing'. If something is neither clear nor knowing, there is a problem calling it mind or consciousness. At this level, it is good to realize that Buddhism does not have one single answer; there are several different schools of thought with their own explanations of how and where exactly these karmic imprints are stored and how exactly they are activated when we experience karmic results. Although I agree with Jeff that understanding these processes does not necessarily change our behaviour directly, I do think to study and discuss these things is essential in how much faith and trust we can have in them - probably this is what Graham refers to. It is said that only a completely enlightened Buddha fully understands karma, so unfortunately, as beings quite stuck in samsara, we cannot expect to first fully understand karma and then act accordingly. In particular in moments of doubt (which I'm sure we all have from time to time), it is often more then helpful to be able to fall back on our knowledge and logical reasoning then just on faith. Most westerners have not grown up with the concept of karma at all, so for most of us, it is quite important to chew over these subjects extensively rather then blindly believing in them. Unfortunately, I think that mere intellectual knowledge does not get us very far with the subject of karma. On the other hand, blind faith has never been a sensible attitude to me when it comes to determine what is good or bad. For me, the belief in karma certainly still is much more a gut feeling then a totally intellectual subject, but I find that all other explanations of why things happen to us like 'fate''or 'God' or so, are a lot less logical or appealing to me, so I chose the least unacceptable of explanations  As you mention Jeff, I agree that realizing emptiness is the ultimate medicine against samsara; but it's pretty tough to get... But I indulge in all these things regardless of my mindfulness of the dharma. In this sense, I feel hopeless and unwilling to change. So I may always be a "fan" of Buddhism but never a real player.
Brian, I often feel similar to that, however, I refuse to use the word NEVER. If we keep talking ourselves down like that, we would not even be able to reach the front door... It is realistic to recognize that we are far from perfect, but denying ourselves the possibility for growth is pretty close to being spiritually suicidal. |
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Post by Mandala on Jun 17, 2013 20:33:37 GMT 1
For me, the belief in karma certainly still is much more a gut feeling then a totally intellectual subject... EXCERPT: In a science article entitled, "Gut Feelings", in the New York Times a few years ago, Sandra Blakeslee wrote about our "second brain", otherwise known as the "enteric nervous system" located in sheaths of tissue lining the esophagus, stomach, small intestine and colon. "Considered a single entity", Blakeslee wrote, "it is packed with neurons, neurotransmitters and proteins that zap messages between neurons, support cells like those found in the brain proper and a complex circuitry that enables it to act independently, learn, remember and, as the saying goes, produce 'gut feelings." She also wrote: "The brain in the gut plays a major role in human happiness and misery".
"Various scientists explain that when the mind perceives that a situation is critical to the well-being of an individual, chemicals are released that stimulate the gut's brain into action triggering instantaneous hormonal releases. A whole lifetime of accumulated relevant experiences can be accessed without thought. We are compelled to action by an irrepressible feeling, and as anyone knows who has ever been "in the zone", in athletics or any creative moment, there is a clarity and single-mindedness that goes beyond thinking.
Here's an illuminating passage from the bestselling book, Emotional Intelligence, by Daniel Goleman: "Our emotions guide us in facing predicaments too important to leave to the intellect alone - danger, painful loss, bonding with a mate, persisting in a goal. Each emotion offers a distinctive readiness to act." Goleman continues, "The intuitive signals that guide us in crucial decision-making moments come in the form of limbic-driven surges from the viscera that Antonio Domasio (in the book, Descartes Error) calls "somatic markers" - literally "gut feelings".
I would extend the scope of Goleman's statement about the importance of weighing decisions by accessing feelings... Without compassion, empathy and the wisdom of the heart, how can we run a country, a business or a family without creating a disaster? Indeed, the calculating numbness to feelings which permits all kinds of cruelty and deceit is one of the hallmarks of the psychopathic character structure.
Another factor that is critical in decision-making is self-honesty. If we are feeling one thing, but trying do another, trying to overrule or deny our gut feelings about a situation, in a sense, trying to deny our inner truth, our bodies will tell us. When a person is being honest, aware of their true intentions or purposes, and following them consciously, the body enters into a state of balance at the biochemical level that we experience viscerally as a state of harmony and confidence. fullpermissionliving.blogspot.com/2008/01/gut-feelings.html?m=1 |
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brian
Senior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by brian on Jun 17, 2013 22:23:06 GMT 1
Thanks Rudy, I should never say never.
I find it extremely difficult meditating on my own. I lack motivation and patience for it. Within groups, meditation goes very well, but meditating alone (which is essential) is something I need to set more time for and persist doing. I can meditate alone everyday but group meditation is something I can only do rarely from time to time.
I like what Mandala posted about "gut feelings". For Buddha's teachings to be effective, they all have to sink into the heart and soul of one's being rather than just the cerebral cortex. Only diligent meditation allows the dharma to truly settle into our bones and our bodies' pathways.
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graham
Senior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by graham on Jun 18, 2013 8:42:03 GMT 1
Thanks Rudy, I should never say never. I find it extremely difficult meditating on my own. I lack motivation and patience for it. Within groups, meditation goes very well, but meditating alone (which is essential) is something I need to set more time for and persist doing. I can meditate alone everyday but group meditation is something I can only do rarely from time to time. I have the same problem. Don't know if you've read the lamrim, but I found it to be an extremely useful tool for meditation. As I do not have a teacher, it has helped give meditation more focus and direction, much more so than "just sitting." Maybe it would be helpful, don't know.... Thubten Chodron has a really good outline on her website. |
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Post by Clive on Jun 18, 2013 17:54:03 GMT 1
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Post by Clive on Jun 18, 2013 17:57:00 GMT 1
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Post by Rudy on Jun 19, 2013 17:30:20 GMT 1
I find it extremely difficult meditating on my own. That is commonly true for almost all beginners with meditation Brian. However, once we have done a series of guided meditations in a group, and we've been able to share our experiences and questions, usually we can very well continue on our own. But without such a series of guided meditations, it is very difficult to not get stuck somehow. I know only one real remedy for that: make a serious effort and try to save the money and/or time to get this basic series of guided meditations. If that is very tough, you may need to ask yourself seriously what other things always have priority in your life, and if they make you happy in the long run. Some people find that recordings of guided meditations can be helpful as well, but I think this depends very much on the individual. In many cases, people consider the communication with other struggling beginners and being able to ask questions to a teacher as really essential to get going by themselves. In a way, group and guided meditations are merely a stepping stone for us to be able to study and change our own mind, and that we have to do by ourselves. |
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Post by Mandala on Jun 20, 2013 0:04:01 GMT 1
I find it extremely difficult meditating on my own. I lack motivation and patience for it.
You might try exercising first in order to boost concentration and motivation 'chemistry'. I remember you once writing about being on a nature walk near your home and being able to meditate there. You were near a rock and wrote that the tree branches were bouncing. |
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brian
Senior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by brian on Jun 23, 2013 1:37:47 GMT 1
I seen an interesting program about Tai Chi recently. It seems like a most excellent form of exercise and meditation. Was just wondering if anyone here has practiced it or knows more about it. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement.
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Post by bristollad on Jun 23, 2013 8:06:15 GMT 1
I was introduced to Tai Chi many years ago and still find it useful now. It helps me to feel grounded (settles my agitated mind), release physical tension I'm holding onto (particularly in the neck and shoulders) and laugh at my pretensions a bit - its hard to take yourself too seriously when you can't even take a single step without losing balance!  Working with others doing duo work can be very healing too. The approach is to "listen" to the other person, not oppose their force but redirect it or help it along, and as importantly, release our own emotional and physical tension that rises that would allow the others person's force a foothold to act against. My first buddhist teacher, Geshe Damcho Yonten commented that people seemed to be a little more open and able to laugh at themselves after doing some Tai Chi. Of course, a lot rests in the approach that the Tai Chi teacher has - some classes are akin to dancing, others more like mixed martial arts. I would tend to look for a class where the martial applications are taught and worked with (this keeps the moves real) but where the students seem happy, calm and laugh when they overbalance or are caught. As for style: there are 5 major styles if I remember rightly Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu and Sun. Within each style, there are some variations based a particular teacher's approach and understanding. The oldest style is normally acknowledged to be Chen, and its martial roots are most obvious. The most widespread style is Yang - it's moves are more expansive and frequently practised just as an exercise. The Chinese government also formulated some standard forms with a mixture of moves from different styles (but mostly based on Yang) for Wu Shu competitions. These often are taught in a more external way i.e. does it look right, without much regard for how it feels. Hope that piques your interest, Clive. |
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