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Post by timespace on Mar 4, 2014 0:08:21 GMT 1
Yes, Matt, very good point. It depends very much on what we mean by proof: we have to clearly understand and articulate the connotations of the terms we're using before we talk with others. Personally, I find "proof" to be a tricky word. Maybe a better way of putting the Buddhist understanding would be "valid ways of knowing".
It's very interesting, Jeff, because, as you were getting at, Buddhism cherishes the subjective, the experiential; science tries to frame things as objective, "third-person". You start to wonder how anything, though, could be totally objective. You start to wonder how it is so many beings corroborate their experiencing of things with that of others. This is the point where one might study the classical tenet systems' positions on pramana, particularly the back and forth between Cittamatra and Madhyamaka. As long as we can relate it to our daily lives, though..No point in dry intellectualizing.
And Matt, that's a wonderful approach to grow in confidence (or "faith") in the teachings, and like you said, that way we have a solid framework for making sense of our lives.
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matt
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Post by matt on Mar 4, 2014 17:08:13 GMT 1
Oh yeah, I attended a teaching by ALex Berzin on 7 ways of knowing. I think you demonstrated or discussed several of those in your first post. I remember Venerable Thubton Chodran was also attending and she said that there was another system where there were 11 ways. Alex titled the teaching, "Which thoughts can you trust?," which is an interesting approach to take with that topic and obviously aimed at Westerners.
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Post by timespace on Mar 6, 2014 19:29:49 GMT 1
Wow, my two Teachers in the same room! Lucky you, Matt.  |
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matt
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Post by matt on Mar 8, 2014 18:22:00 GMT 1
Thanks, where are you from? I live in Boise, ID. I am taking my daughter to see Robina Courtin later today. You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.  I am just always a little amazed at how many good teachers we get here. Nothing to do with me, I know some of the people who deserve credit for it, aside from the teachers themselves, but I do feel very fortunate in being able to take advantage of it. |
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Post by timespace on Mar 10, 2014 0:57:33 GMT 1
I moved to Eastern Washington a few days ago. Small world |
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matt
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Post by matt on Mar 10, 2014 2:40:53 GMT 1
Cool, so you are pretty close to the Abbey, then?
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Post by timespace on Mar 10, 2014 20:10:44 GMT 1
yep, that was the plan |
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Post by spinynorman on Aug 7, 2014 14:41:08 GMT 1
. So I know that some people, such as Stephen Batchelor try to wriggle their way out of rebirth, but in my view, they also wriggle their way out of Buddhism in that way. Batchelor may call this 'Buddhism without beliefs', I call it 'Buddhism without reasoning'.... The idea of a rebirth from moment to moment, is kind of a more extreme form of looking at rebirth, but it is actually more a way to explain the concept of change in Buddhism. If we realize that this change happens from moment to moment, it becomes easier to let go of the grasping at our 'self'; the concept of rebirth should actually become easier with that realization!
I think many western Buddhists would argue that belief in ( literal ) rebirth is unnecessary for effective practice. I think it's unwise to argue that the Buddha didn't teach rebirth, but wise to consider why he taught it and how it relates to our daily practice.
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Post by csee on Aug 7, 2014 18:02:00 GMT 1
Dear Robert , you said "I tend to take the question of re-birth literally. However I find,
reading posts in other forums, that a great number of people do not think so. The idea is that you are being re-born every minute of your life and that when we die evetrything is over.
What are the views of this forum on this?" Un-quote
Yes you are right if only you based on your knowledge .In human culture , knowledge is used as the basis of judgement .......but Buddhism is beyond knowledge , beyond culture .....and if one focusing on knowledge , they will always know what already known ...knowing what they known ...and wishing to know what is known ...one will always in circle of own knowledge , becoming part of the knowledge itself ......and confused over own knowledge
In my current understanding , Buddhism is a natural process of all living or non-living traveling naturally into the original condition of nothingness ...and for human , is a natural process of realization ...realization of own existence , cause of own existence ..one realized that his existence is caused by emotion like fear , desire , love , hate , anger etc .... ..and one realized that nothing is owned by him nor the physical body is never belong to him ...., he realized that his original nature is "nothingness " same as all living or non-living......so he realized he is never the body , he is the emotion ......and each moment the emotion changes ........in the journey known in human culture as life each second the desire , fear , love changes and each moment he changes ...so I guess you could relate to that ....
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Post by noessentialnature on Aug 10, 2014 18:44:00 GMT 1
I tend to take the question of re-birth literally. However I find,
reading posts in other forums, that a great number of people do not think so. The idea is that you are being re-born every minute of your life and that when we die evetrything is over.
What are the views of this forum on this?
Robert (Maintop)
Self is only a metaphor, yet to each of us it seems the most real thing. |
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Post by Will on Aug 10, 2014 19:04:33 GMT 1
Both are true, except that when we die everything is not over.
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I am just always a little amazed at how many good teachers we get here. Nothing to do with me, I know some of the people who deserve credit for it, aside from the teachers themselves, but I do feel very fortunate in being able to take advantage of it.
