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Faith
Aug 29, 2014 20:42:35 GMT 1
Post by Jeff H on Aug 29, 2014 20:42:35 GMT 1
Thanks Will! Good stuff!
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Faith
Sept 12, 2014 22:39:25 GMT 1
Post by Will on Sept 12, 2014 22:39:25 GMT 1
Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
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Faith
Sept 13, 2014 17:15:16 GMT 1
Post by spinynorman on Sept 13, 2014 17:15:16 GMT 1
I don't get this, Will. What exactly does one need to have faith in? I can understand having faith ( confidence ) in a teaching, method or particular teacher, but this sounds like something else?
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Faith
Sept 13, 2014 20:09:35 GMT 1
Post by Will on Sept 13, 2014 20:09:35 GMT 1
I don't get this, Will. What exactly does one need to have faith in? I can understand having faith ( confidence ) in a teaching, method or particular teacher, but this sounds like something else? Yes, the Mahayana presents a buddha element or buddha nature that all of us have. So, in addition to what you mention, developing certainty in our own true nature is a great help also. Here is the Tibetan Gampopa on the three levels of faith:
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tamara
Senior Member
Posts: 178
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Faith
Sept 14, 2014 1:43:14 GMT 1
Post by tamara on Sept 14, 2014 1:43:14 GMT 1
spinynorman wrote: ``I don't get this, Will. What exactly does one need to have faith in? I can understand having faith ( confidence ) in a teaching, method or particular teacher, but this sounds like something else?`` Yes, as Will says, additionally to the methods (teaching, teachers, practices etc.) we have faith that there is something that takes out of misery/samsara completely and once for all, once karma is exhausted. What this something is, is differently talked about in various Tib. Buddh. schools and differently talked about on various levels of understanding. Will says: ``So, in addition to what you mention, developing certainty in our own true nature is a great help also.`` According to Gampopa (Kagyu), for instance, having full certainty in our own TRUE nature IS enlightenment. Now..., to figure out, what this statement means and then not to forget it can take a long time Tamara
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Faith
Sept 14, 2014 10:26:26 GMT 1
Post by spinynorman on Sept 14, 2014 10:26:26 GMT 1
According to Gampopa (Kagyu), for instance, having full certainty in our own TRUE nature IS enlightenment. Now..., to figure out, what this statement means and then not to forget it can take a long time Tamara I suppose that begs the question: "What is our own true nature?"
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Faith
Sept 15, 2014 5:34:45 GMT 1
Post by Will on Sept 15, 2014 5:34:45 GMT 1
Here is Y.S. Hakeda explaining our innate buddha-nature in his Introduction to Ashvaghosha's The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana:
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Faith
Sept 17, 2014 22:33:03 GMT 1
Post by Rudy on Sept 17, 2014 22:33:03 GMT 1
Sorry all, have been absent here for quite a while - too much other stuff going on... Just wanted to quickly respond to the NKT issue of Jeff mentioned earlier. Basically, things like the LamRim teachings etc. as presented at NKT appear quite OK. However, when it comes down to initiations, Shugden, ordination and guru-devotion, they show signs of some of the worst qualities of sects, by e.g. twisting the teachings and manipulating students. For example, for many years one of their standard practices was to invite total beginners to initiations (often Shugden), and these of course will have no idea what is happening in the ritual; then afterwards they were told: "you have taken initiation, now you must have absolute trust in GKG, because he is your master." Especially in the earlier days, people were basically given the choice: 'do everything GKG says, otherwise you will eternally burn in hell". It is an example of the worst type of pressure you can put on any member of a spiritual/religious group. The FPMT has a very long and bad history with the NKT: they originally invited GKG to teach in their Manjushri center in London. Not long after, the center was hijacked to be the first NKT center. Since then they have tried to take over many of the FPMT centers and study groups, but of course the FPMT have taken all kinds of measures to avoid this happening again. Also they love to create confusion in more subtle ways; for example an FPMT teacher would give weekly teachings on Tuesday at a certain location, and in no time, NKT would be renting the same place on another weekday evening to give teachings there as well, explaining to people how poor the Tuesday teachings are etc. Similar kind of sabotage actions happened for many years in the FPMT online discussion fora - this is why you now don't see any fora like this one at the FPMT anymore. So the FPMT has a very long awful history with the NKT and their manipulations, and I can assure you that there is good historical reason for their extreme care, however unjustified that is in your personal case. I guess you are very right to feel discriminated against, but it is has now become a necessary self-defence system in the FPMT. If you have seen any recent protests of the NKT at teachings of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, you probably agree that the NKT 'monks and nuns' can be a scary lot... Unfortunately enough, that already rubs off on the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition. I suppose that such kinds of long-term effects are what His Holiness foresaw long ago.
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Faith
Sept 18, 2014 16:03:38 GMT 1
jeff likes this
Post by Jeff H on Sept 18, 2014 16:03:38 GMT 1
This is the most straightforward explanation I’ve heard, Rudy. Thank you! I appreciate the way you separate the underlying, traditional teachings from the samsaric behaviors.
I never experienced any of those cult-behaviors at NKT. I attended weekly sessions at a local NKT center for two years, although my main practice was studying GKG's designated "Foundation Programme" texts on my own at home. In all that time and all that reading I only encountered one mention of Shugden from NKTs, which I’d describe as extremely low-key.
Once I learned about the controversy I went to your website as a check and balance to see if NKT was presenting anything substantially different from your FPMT perspective. Also during that time I attended teachings of HHDL's (inside, not on the picket lines!), met Ven. Robina (thanks to Jeff C from this forum), and learned about the Jamyang online courses through this forum as well. I much prefer FPMT but I credit NKT with providing me with a very strong foundational knowledgebase and lasting preliminary practices, for which I am very appreciative.
I’m very happy Jamyang rejected me as a moderator because it has provided me with a much needed reality check. I've been steeped in idealistic trainings for almost eight years and this has helped me gain a better perspective on Buddhism-in-the-world. I've had this forum discussion, a discussion with the Jamyang moderator of the LamRimChenmo course, and an in depth exchange with Ven. Robina about it. I've read up on the Shugden issue somewhat, and that led me to an excellent study of Tibetan monastic scholasticism (Dreyfus' The Sound of Two Hands Clapping). Now I feel I've processed it all as well as I can for now and I'm returning to my regular lamrim/lojong practices.
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Faith
Sept 22, 2014 7:54:39 GMT 1
Post by spinynorman on Sept 22, 2014 7:54:39 GMT 1
Here is Y.S. Hakeda explaining our innate buddha-nature in his Introduction to Ashvaghosha's The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana:
So effectively it's having faith in the possibility of Nirvana?
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Faith
Sept 23, 2014 19:08:26 GMT 1
Post by Will on Sept 23, 2014 19:08:26 GMT 1
Here is Y.S. Hakeda explaining our innate buddha-nature in his Introduction to Ashvaghosha's The Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana:
So effectively it's having faith in the possibility of Nirvana? It is faith that buddhahood is within us and that faith is actually a weak or stronger contact with our True Nature of buddhahood.
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Faith
Sept 24, 2014 19:31:02 GMT 1
Post by Will on Sept 24, 2014 19:31:02 GMT 1
Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
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dan
Senior Member
Posts: 89
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Faith
Oct 17, 2014 7:13:54 GMT 1
Post by dan on Oct 17, 2014 7:13:54 GMT 1
from Magic Dance, by Thinley Norbu:
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tamara
Senior Member
Posts: 178
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Faith
Oct 26, 2014 3:57:48 GMT 1
matt likes this
Post by tamara on Oct 26, 2014 3:57:48 GMT 1
Spinynorman wrote:
``I suppose that begs the question: "What is our own true nature?" ````
There are many ways to put it.......some call it `emptiness` (can be misunderstood completely) together with `compassion`( a poorly translated Tibetan term IMHO).
This is what HH Dalai Lama says (from the Introductory Commentary of the `Tibetan Book of the Dead, translation Jigmey Dorje,Edition Coleman, Jinpa, 2007):
On what constitues a person on the subtlest=purest=ultimate level:
```````The subtle body and (so-called) subtle wind are a single entity that has two facets.
The aspect which has the quality of awareness, which can reflect and has the power of cognition, is the subtle mind.
Simultaneously there is its energy, the force which activates mind towards its object (often translated as compassion) - this is the subtle body or subtle wind.
These two inextricably conjoined qualities are regarded as the ultimate nature of a person and are identified as Buddha nature, the essential or actual nature of mind.``````
Pretty breathtaking way to put it, isn`t it.
While we struggle with 1.generation translation terms like emptiness and compassion, HH simply tells us what it is all about.....and we still do not `get` it.....
Tamara
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