kaban
New Member
Posts: 1 
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Post by kaban on Jul 27, 2013 16:17:20 GMT 1
hi, i was born in Kazakhstan, but i always had strong feeling that it is one more life i live - i believe in reincarnation 100%, and only buddhism has concept of reincarnation - so this religion is closer to me, so my question is:
what if a man decides to leave his homeland(country he was born in )?
my country is in a bad situation, government is corrupted, people don't see money from our oil trade, there is many injustice in it.
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i have 2 opinions in my mind:
1: i must be patriot, i must live and work in my country , be active and try to make my country better somehow.
2: i want to have rich/good life - i can live in western country, think about myself and future of my kids, make money and be happy in general
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this 2 opinions really fight in my head!
i think i m selfish and i feel guilty about it( since of my desire to have life for myself and avoid the whole country's problem)
i keep telling to myself this justifying - "one man can not change the whole country, if you wanna do that - you need to go to politics, this area requires money in the 1st place" . finally - "just get life for yourself , make your life good first and then think of others"
my question:
should a buddhist or man closer to buddhism be patriotic?
DOES BAD KARMA BUILD if i m not patriot? (my intuition tells me that bad karma will build - only if i feel bad about it?)
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brian
Senior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by brian on Jul 27, 2013 19:17:43 GMT 1
Hi kaban! This is actually a very interesting question. Your honesty shows. In my opinion, patriotism is a very relative thing. If you happened to be born elsewhere your loyalties would be there instead of Kazakhstan. Yet enlightenment, your spiritual way, the dharma transcends national barriers and ethnicities. I don't think it would be selfish for you to move and seek a better life economically. As long as your intentions are good to help your children and "make the world a better place", then it doesn't really matter where you live but HOW you live. Strangely enough I have been thinking of moving out of the United States for a year or so to work and explore parts of Asia. I don't see myself betraying my country but simply traveling to a foreign land. Where it would lead or what exactly would come of it is completely unknown. Also many times in many countries patriotism is a form of nationalist propaganda. Historically it has led to great intolerance and warfare. It is just another form of distinction and discrimination. It's basically another way of saying "I am different from you" which goes against Buddha's teaching that we are all one and interdependent. I'm sure that if I were to live in China for a while that I would find great similarities to the people I know in America except for just illusory appearances and customs. So I would say follow your path and not be overly concerned with patriotism. Being patriotic isn't always what it seems to be anyways. It is mostly a learned delusion in my humble opinion. Thanks and good luck! Namaste  |
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matt
Senior Member
Posts: 425
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Post by matt on Jul 27, 2013 19:30:10 GMT 1
Patriotism is not a good attitude from a Buddhist point of view if it means attachment to your people more than wanting every one to be happy. It is good to feel some responsibility and wanting to make it a better place, but we are encouraged to recognize our limitations as deluded, not yet enlightened people. I would go and study Buddhism while you purse your life there. Try to be kind and later you might go back and really make a difference. Do not put too much value on material success, though if you can help it. |
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graham
Senior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by graham on Jul 28, 2013 3:18:17 GMT 1
DOES BAD KARMA BUILD if i m not patriot? (my intuition tells me that bad karma will build - only if i feel bad about it?) Agree that this is a really interesting topic. My first reaction was to scoff at this question and say that obviously it does not. In fact, one of the bodhisattva vows is to leave your homeland, away from your potentially distracting family and friends. On the flip side, perhaps you were born in Kazakstan for a reason, and your intuition to assist your country and fellow people is karma speaking to you. I'd say that, when in doubt over any sort of life/samsaric question such as this one, it's very important to try to gain a glimpse of the bigger picture. In Buddhism, there are no countries or politics... only sentient beings who ALL need to be saved. Even (especially) your worst enemies. A final thought... something I've come to realize in my own life... you can often do much more for the world in your own back yard than you can by undertaking some grand life change. Graham |
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Post by Rudy on Jul 28, 2013 13:16:29 GMT 1
Great wisdom in all of the above Patriotism has two sides to it; being a patriot is positive in the sense that we would try to help the people in our own country, but chosing for the people in our own country is often also a choice against everyone else... Apart of the two options you give yourself, you may want to consider the Buddhist approach: Ask yourself: 'what can I do to help all these people?'. The answer is usually that we do not have much to offer at the moment; we do not have the power, the money or the wisdom to make a big difference... Therefor, the general advice is to make sure we have more to offer, and what is better then being able to offer wisdom? If we manage to develop our wisdom, then we can be of great help to everyone we want, be that our friends, our family, our country or the whole world. Ideally, we should try to find the best circumstances to develop ourselves in a positive way - the main thing is our positive motivation to try and help others. So in short: perhaps let your choice depend on how and where you think you can best help others.  |
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dan
Senior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by dan on Jul 28, 2013 20:06:15 GMT 1
I'm of the opinion that whatever guilt you may feel, or the intuition of bad karma, is more like cultural, or nationalistic conditioning, than intuition. Karma has more to do with having been born into those conditions and the effects these conditions have had on your actions--body, speech and mind--including feelings of guilt when wanting to seek better conditions.
As far as recognizing your current limitations to be of truly helpful to your country, this is similar to the path of compassion. While recognizing the immense amount of (unnecessary) suffering going on with all sentient beings, we also recognize that our current capacity to be of real help is limited, and use that recognition and desire to be of real help as motivation for the path.
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tamara
Senior Member
Posts: 178
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Post by tamara on Jul 29, 2013 1:03:05 GMT 1
kaban wrote:
``````i have 2 opinions in my mind:
1: i must be patriot, i must live and work in my country , be active and try to make my country better somehow.
2: i want to have rich/good life - i can live in western country, think about myself and future of my kids, make money and be happy in general````
your post proves that you ARE a patriot.
While being out of your country you will not necessarily stop being a patriot.
from my experience which is a vast one in this regard, the connection never stops and the consequence is that you, according to your possibilities, do something for the people you feel you left behind. Funny enough, often only to BE THERE for others is sufficient and one does not necessarily have to do something.
I left 4 countries because the circumstances were so that the move to the next one seemed good.
The second move was quite drastic because this meant to cut the connections to the family for 40 years (former communist stuff).
As I understand Kasachstan is open to the world at present. You are lucky in this regard.
Who says that being, let`s an entrepreneur, you will not invest back into your country ?
Or perhaps you will be part of `transparency international` or of whatever other desperate movements to try to alliviate the cause why thousnads Kasachstan exptriaties do NOT invest in your contry even if they want to.
What ever you do you will never be apart from your people, if you decide so. What`s happening globally is a whole huge movement while, fascinating enough, we still can stay connected if we want to. Fantastic indeed. The whole point in this is not to be carried away by petty troubles of the daily life but to get your own BIG PICTURE straight and then stick to it. What is the big picture, that`s the question and the search for answers a fascinating one.
Tamara
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brian
Senior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by brian on Jul 31, 2013 6:44:49 GMT 1
Tamara wrote What ever you do you will never be apart from your people, if you decide so. What`s happening globally is a whole huge movement while, fascinating enough, we still can stay connected if we want to. Fantastic indeed. The whole point in this is not to be carried away by petty troubles of the daily life but to get your own BIG PICTURE straight and then stick to it. What is the big picture, that`s the question and the search for answers a fascinating one.Actually your advice here has shed some light for myself as well. Yes, getting our BIG picture straight is way more important than our daily worries. It is so easy to be swept away from our true goals in life. My Big picture is coming into focus and this is what I'll meditate on for a while. Thanks |
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