|
|
Post by samuel on Aug 13, 2013 17:00:37 GMT 1
Hello everybody.....I am Samuel from Malaysia and your newest member. It's only polite to introduce oneself when one joins a new group. I live in Kuala Lumpur and I have been an agnostic all my life. My definition of an agnostic may not be the same as English dictionaries because I am peculiar. I believe in God but in a non-Abrahamic religion form. Just that there is a great force that created everything. I feel like a fool sometimes because I have ventured through life without getting into Buddhism where the CIA tells us that there are an estimated 500 million people who are "practicing" Buddhists and some 1.2 million adherents. That is baffling to me and I also have a very important question to start the "ball rolling" - so to speak.
For starters, what is meant by practicing Buddhists and adherents? To me it is more or less the same. Please help me understand because my life's journey has finally brought me to your door. Please extend me some compassion and help to enlighten me. "God" has been speaking to me all these years and the message can be equated to "Samuel my son, go to Buddhism" - because I frequently get drawn to Buddhist destinations of the world. I went to Bodhgaya in 1987 at a time when my life was in turmoil and I found so much peace there. It was an enveloping feel of comfort and in many ways it helped to heal me. The journey there was arduous from Patna and it was as if to be like a test of the virtue of patience. I think it must have been some 7 hours on the local bus. But when I got there, it was blissful. When I got through the entrance of the Mahabodhi, on the left was a lotus pond full of lotus and a statue of Buddha in the middle in a meditation pose. It touched me so very much and infused a huge dose of comfort into my troubled soul.
That was 26 years ago and I still remember it so vividly today and I still feel it. Over the years I have visited so many Buddhist places from Anuradhapura to "heaven knows" where else. Why is that so - seems like it's my karma to have that experience. But I am not a Buddhist by practice. So am I an example of an adherent? Please don't think I am loony because I write a lot. Some people think I am loony but that's because they are impatient and fail to tolerate me. So I have come here to you my "brothers and sisters" and it may be the "Lord" sending a test to you all. I might well be an instrument to benefit you all because in life many people profess what they are not. Hypocrites are in abundance and I know we can't play judge but we can still perceive. Otherwise we have no ground to stand on to improve ourselves.
But the world has tormented me so much by way of disillusionment in the bulk of humanity because so much bad permeates our existence. Everyday, so much of evil occurs and even innocent children are cut down by the very adults they rely on for safety. I am saddened and who knows may eventually end up in the nuthouse and perhaps it would be my karma to observe life from an insane mind. And no, I am not on drugs and hallucinating away. It's just that I can't help but be affected by what's going on.
If anybody can help me, please share some answers but in layman terms please because I don't know Buddhist scriptures and Pali or Sanskrit. And I ought to admit that I am not all that bright and hardly had any proper schooling but have instead educated myself in many respects. So please don't be upset with me and help if you may.
Thank you & I am honored to be here.
|
|
matt
Senior Member
Posts: 425
|
Post by matt on Aug 13, 2013 17:35:49 GMT 1
Hi Samuel, welcome to the form. I did not know that the CIA published any information, much less statistics about religion. Is this from a website? It would make more sense to me if the number of practicing Buddhists was lower than the number of adherents. In that case I would say that many people might identify as a Buddhist, because they were born in a Buddhist culture like Japan or Korea, but they do not practice regularly. Is it possible you reversed those numbers? You do not have to worry about us thinking less of you for not having a formal education. However, if you think that God may have put you here to test our sincerity? Well, that is a rather arrogant attitude to try to start any kind of friendly discussion with don't you think? Would it not be better to assume that despite our various backgrounds, and exposure to buddhism we each have something valid to offer? That is my belief. I hope you enjoy yourself here, just go lightly and be kind. Welcome again.  |
|
|
|
Post by samuel on Aug 13, 2013 18:00:15 GMT 1
Hi Matt, Thanks for your kindness. I noted you are a Senior Member. The CIA has this Factbook and I googled it under the total number of Buddhists in the world and got those figures. Or Maybe I misread because they are not very illustrative with the columns. You are right Matt, that bit seemed like an arrogant statement and I was right because it has aroused your attention followed by your subtle rebuttal. Thanks for your understanding because many people have told me in the past that I "test" their patience. I deeply apologize for my fault.
Funny thing is that I have little to nothing to offer because I am just only getting into Buddhism - sort of what you would call a greenhorn. Instead, I might be a taker because I was hoping to learn from those who are more experienced with the subject of Buddhism. In my country, whenever you ask Chinese people what religion they are, they often say Buddhist but rather they are more Taoist than Buddhists. They seemed to have fused them together. They just pray with tradition. But there are also those who are real Buddhist and know so much and I have met some. Sometimes the answers they provide can be confusing for me. I hope I can learn much here and be on my way to become a practicing Buddhist. I like it.
Thanks Matt and I am honoured to meet you.
|
|
matt
Senior Member
Posts: 425
|
Post by matt on Aug 13, 2013 18:25:53 GMT 1
I am glad to meet you as well. So first of all, I would like to say that it is very important not to confuse Buddhists, with Buddhas. There are many Buddhists in the world, some of whom practice meditation and study or chanting or some thing regularly. But a Buddha, a fully enlightened being, that is very very rare. And Buddhas have all kinds of wonderful qualities, one of which is the perfection of patience. But Buddhists, we are just ordinary people like all ordinary people and we are very flawed and not at all consistent with our ideals. So if you expect Buddhists to behave like a Buddha, you will be very dissapointed. So it is best to behave on a Buddhist forum, same as anywhere, treat people the way you want to be treated. Be kind, be patient, be understanding, and try to be polite. That is my advice, then people will respond very positively to you and answer any questions you might have, and consider any of your thoughts carefully. If you have noticed that sometimes you try people's patience, then it would be a Buddhist attitude, in my opinion, to make an effort to understand how, and do it a little less each day. Tibetans' word for Buddhism is Insider, and that means that we each are responsible for improving our selves. THis is how we change the world, not by challenging others. In my opinion, challenging others is not usually the Buddhist way. Anyway, nice to have someone from Kuala Lumpur here. I have been there and thought it was a very, very beautiful and calm city. |
|
|
|
Post by Rudy on Aug 13, 2013 22:16:03 GMT 1
Hi Samuel, The number of genuine Buddhists or practicing Buddhists is hard to count, if possible at all. As you say, a large number of Chinese may be counted as Buddhist, but in a country that has banned any form of religion for decades, it may well be that the real practitioners deny that they are Buddhist, and the people who say yes, have no idea what that means. Similarly, many people in the Netherlands are still counted as Christian who have simply seen no reason to make the effort to un-register from the church... Besides that, one could argue that someone who really practices Buddhism is already a very advanced practitioner. When I look sincerely at my own mind, I only see a part-time Buddhist at best  This is why some Buddhists might say: 'I'm trying to be a Buddhist' ratehr then 'I am a Buddhist'. Regarding your disillusionment with the world; when I first started to get interested in Buddhism, a teacher told me: 'If the whole world is covered with thorns, what would you do: try to cover the whole world with leather, or put two pieces under your feet?" It took me a while to get it, but that is the Buddhist approach in a nutshell: rather then trying to change the world without knowing what to do, it is better to start changing ourselves and try to develop some wisdom. |
|
|
|
Post by samuel on Aug 14, 2013 8:31:09 GMT 1
Hi Matt, Thanks again for your clear explanation. Yes, I noted that there are so many different groups of Buddhists and many Buddhas and Bodhistava too. I was confused for a while. As for Buddhists, something tells me they are more easy and compassionate as compared to followers of other religions. I may be wrong too because somehow it seems to be my expectation. I also perhaps expected there would be more integration within the Sangkha. But if there are as many hypocrites as elsewhere then I am sure something is gravely wrong because I somehow expect a greater proportion of Buddhists to be above that. Are we to expect Buddhists militants too since the whole world seems to be oriented that way? Yes, I have thought about those who claimed I test their patience and concluded that they practice not what they preach. So their rebukes were probably a means to divert attention to their shortcomings. KL is still nice but not so friendly these days since crime has surged.
Hi Rudy,
You strike me a a rather compassionate and patient person and I truly appreciate that. Your analogy from your teacher about the thorns and leather is very nice and in fact comforting. It came to a point like a crossroad that I started thinking perhaps this world is a place to excel in evil and the kind souls are all doing it wrong. Perhaps this is not a place to do good but to pit the human being to see how well he excels in evil. Mainly evil, devious people are all doing very well and often crime does pay. Can it be that we all be walking the wrong way in a One Way Street? Can we say belong to a right "religion" but in a wrong place?
|
|
brian
Senior Member
Posts: 83
|
Post by brian on Aug 14, 2013 21:38:04 GMT 1
Hello Samuel! welcome! You write very well and seem to be quite insightful. You are already a Buddhist. Buddha Nature is within you. Practicing meditation and studying the Dharma reveals it and liberates it from within you. Don't be so hard on yourself. You are not alone. You will find peace, happiness and compassion in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
I totally understand your disillusionment with the world...crime, poverty, materialism, superficiality, etc. Yet the Buddha teaches that this is ALL suffering. Suffering exists, which is the First Noble truth.
I agree that it is your karma to follow Buddhism. Having the opportunity to travel to Bodhgaya and other Buddhist destinations was a real blessing. Follow your heart and listen to your inner wisdom, your intuition. Nirvana is available in the here and now. Past and Future are illusions.
“You only lose what you cling to.”
― Gautama Buddha
|
|
|
|
Post by Rudy on Aug 15, 2013 8:56:42 GMT 1
Hi Samuel, As Matt already emphasized, Buddhists are humans, not perfect Buddhas. So we can expect thieves, cheats and even murderers among people who call themselves Buddhists  However, among the people who understand and practice the basics of Buddhism, I would expect only very few criminals and extremists, because the entire teachings aim at the point that harming others in the end harms ourselves most (karma). When someone really understands that, I think you can expect them to be less selfish and harmful to others. The main challenge is of course that from the outside, it is hard to see who is merely Buddhist in name and who is an actual practitioner. But also in extreme cases, like when our friends or family are under attack, it will be quite difficult to not do anything - even if it means becoming violent. Being hypocritical is a state of mind (often strengthened by habituation), and not necessarily connected to whatever faith system we believe in, I'm sure that I am often a hypocrit, even if it were only because of bad habits and cultural influences. You said; Mainly evil, devious people are all doing very well and often crime does pay. Can it be that we all be walking the wrong way in a One Way Street? Can we say belong to a right "religion" but in a wrong place?On the short term, you may be right about devious people; it is obviously easier for them to get rich... However, are they really happier with a life in wealth, but always have to look over their shoulder if nobody is following them? In the concept of karma, we all get what we deserve; when we harm others, we can expect suffering, when we help others we can expect happiness. However, there is a time between action and karmic result, and often the results are said to come in a next life time. As most of us cannot see past or future lives, the actual result of our actions or causes for what we experience are hidden. I suppose that this is an aspect of Buddhism where faith is needed - simply because we cannot see it directly for ourselves. So in the long run, one could say that we are all in the 'right time' at the 'right place' - considering our past actions (mostly in previous life times). Tibetans have a saying for that: If you want to know your past, look at your present situation; if you want to know your future situation, look at your present actions. And yes, it is considered easy to get into a downward spiral; once we behave very harmful, we end up in very difficult situations, in which we often tend to do even more negative actions. This is why it is explained that the lower realms of existence (such as the hellish states), are a lot fuller then happy states like humans and devas (heavenly). |
|
|
|
Post by samuel on Aug 15, 2013 12:37:21 GMT 1
Hi Rudy. Thank you for taking the time to render a good explanation. I see your points very clearly and can accept quite a lot in what you say. However for Myanmar, it's not a matter of protecting oneself from being attacked. But to see the Muslims being displaced and living like refugees and their homes and fields burned to the ground is reminiscent of helpless people fleeing war. That's what's sad besides those who have lost their lives.
As for the subject of karma and reincarnation, I think I can see that the soul is entrapped in the body and is forced to undergo "development" through karma. The thought of death is so terrifying to most people and that fear itself is an entrapment to motivate them to stay alive for as long as possible. That of course is very unfair to this temporary life of ours because this body did not do anything in the past life to be "punished" in this life. Yes, one may say that only the soul matters but I tend to think that the body matters in this life too. And this is albeit the soul is affected by what the body endures and experiences.
So for good deeds, is there some instant karmic rewards that we can enjoy in this life time? There's a saying in the English language in that "no good deed ever goes unpunished" which means that we get punished for doing good. Can there be a reward or even a fraction of it so that we may be more motivated to do good or is it simply just a harsh test to see if we can continue to do good after being repaid with punishment from doing good previously?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rudy on Aug 15, 2013 17:16:21 GMT 1
Of course, the situation in Myanmar is not life-threatening for the general people. That is why such outrageous acts are not defendable, Buddhist or not... According to Buddhism, the most important mental problems we have are attachment (greed), anger and ignorance. I suppose that all three are probably present in the people who commit these crimes. Buddhism gives no excuses for such behavior - it explains that the criminal of today will be the victim of tomorrow (or after a much longer time). Of course, we can all sense only one life (very often only one day). This is why we chose to defend our life, even if that means killing others. If we are hungry, we may chose to kill for food, if we feel we need more money and luxury we may chose to kill, sometimes people are killed for nothing more then the color of their skin or because alcohol influences our judgement. Unfortunaltely, killing and harming others often feels much easier then chosing death or harm to ourselves. And this is exactly the reason why we have been imprisoned in the cycle of rebirth since beginningless time. Over and over again we create the negative causes to experience suffering in the future. Buddhism teaches that only if we make drastic changes to our ways of thinking we can free ourselves from this vicious cycle and find eternal happiness of enlightenment. In Buddhism something like 'instant karma' is considered rare, simply because we do not only need karma for a certain result, but we need the right circumstances as well. Extreme example: we may have the karma to be run over by a truck, but on a mountain path you will not find any trucks. Regarding your last question on "no good deed ever goes unpunished", I can think of one example in Buddhism. If we are seriously on the path, we will need to realize that our negative actions from the past will also block our progress on the spiritual path. In order to reduce such obstacles, we can do 'purification practices', as a kind of antidote against previous negative karma. The result of purification can be for example that instead of being killed, we bump into a door and are left with a headache - not nice, but a lot better...  Also, different circumstances can make a big difference in how much we suffer from a specific karmic action. Again a very simple answer: if we suffer from the experience of hunger, there is a huge difference between not having eaten much for weeks and holding a fasting day to lose weight. These circumstances would also be the result of previous actions/karma, but different ones. The bottom line is, that when you live a very positive life with a just small glitch every now and then, your future will look pretty good. If you are in the habit of only being selfish or even criminal, your future will look pretty grim, even if you can bathe in luxury today. I consider the law of karma to be very consistent with science: certain actions have certain results, and nothing happens without a cause. If this is true for matter, it is only logical that it is also true for mind. |
|
matt
Senior Member
Posts: 425
|
Post by matt on Aug 15, 2013 19:39:42 GMT 1
Oh, by the way, Samuel. Being a "Senior Member" is just something the website does automatically if you post a lot over a certain amount of time. It does not say anything about our qualifications or anything like that. Rudy deserves a lot of credit for creating his website, and hosting this forum through many difficulties and for many years. I am just a guy who writes on it a lot. There is a lot of great information on his website. You can link to it from the top of any page. Have a look when you have time. |
|
|
|
Post by samuel on Aug 16, 2013 7:59:26 GMT 1
Hi Matt, I really absorbed your comments and find much meaning in them. Thank you, it's very touching too and your reasoning makes me ponder as well as discover. Yes, I think I have come to the purification phase. To me, it's timely though I might have taken the long route. Your comments are also insightful. It has a lot with what I feel and think and there's some likelihood I might have been a Buddhist in my past life. As a matter of fact when I was 5 some temple spoke to my dad to want to "adopt" me, whatever that meant. It might have been Buddhist or Taoist, I can't tell.
I have taken the initiative to try to embark on a new era in my life and for starters, am allowing good vibes to surround me. Hence, I have somehow landed here and all of a sudden awaken into a new world, and within this wretched world. For starters, I am listening to Buddhist songs and within, I am trying to abate and downplay on the darker qualities like anger, bitterness, disappointment etc. and replace it with love, compassion, positiveness etc. Also I am extracting myself from negative places which also includes the net too. So I really appreciate a stranger like you helping me. Rudy has been very helpful too and Brian was very comforting. Thank you all very much. Kindness certainly can make people feel better.
My sadness with Myanmar Buddhists is that they have had a hard time all these years and finally things are changing and the country opening up. So I surmise that they have been put through the mill and with much pent up negative feeling because of the environment they live in. Maybe given a while, things would change and people too. When I attended a funeral at a crematorium recently there was a Burmese victim of retaliation over here. Got killed by some Burmese Muslim. Sad really because it's always the moral and religious obligation of the majority to accommodate the minorities. Violence can be averted.
|
|
This is why some Buddhists might say: 'I'm trying to be a Buddhist' ratehr then 'I am a Buddhist'.
