Vipassanna ?? Hmmm | View on Buddhism

hatchha
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Posts: 1

Vipassanna ?? Hmmm May 22, 2014 21:03:05 GMT 1

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Post by hatchha on May 22, 2014 21:03:05 GMT 1

HI All

I been meditating just over a year now, following the teachings and motivated by one book 'mindfulness in plain English' by Henepola Gunaratana. I have read many books on meditation, but this was the only one that really spoke to me, so much so I decided to make it apart of my life. I got to a stage where I need more. More guidance, more insight, meditation time. I don't know, more something. I went looking for a retreat. In his book he keeps banging on about Vipassanna and naturally I was focusing on Vipassanna retreats. What I booked myself into (for the end of this month) is a S.N. Goenka 10day silent Vipassanna retreat.

I found out that these S.N. Goenka retreats are actually quite famous all over the world. Researching this online I got so many mixed responses and reviews that I'm not too sure of what to make of it. Anybody here know anything about these retreats and have any opinions? Also what do you know of and/or think of this S.N. Goenka geezer.

I got quite confused about Vipassanna. A layman like myself could easily be lead into believing that it is a type of Buddhism, which it is not and is merely a meditative practice from Theravada. It seems to be billed as a entity on it's own in the west. I've seen it referred to, many places, as if it is a school of buddhism in its own right.

Then I start to wounder about the merits of separating Vipassanna & Samatha from their mother. What benefits can be gained from practicing Vipassanna in isolation. The book does not focus on Theravada at all, yet talks about gaining enlightenment (which I'm not aiming for anyway) from Vipassanna. I read, somewhere else, in Theravada, enlightenment is impossible unless you live a monastic life and is inaccessible for the common people. I thought enlightenment through meditation alone is more of a Zen thing.
In fact this Vipassanna movement seems to have more in common with Mahayana than with Theravada.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on S.N Goenka retreats. Also on vipassanna meditation; if it's worthy of being completely separated from the Theravada tradition.
I am starting to ask where am I going with this. Not to a monastery that's for sure

Rudy
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Posts: 193

Vipassanna ?? Hmmm May 23, 2014 22:32:07 GMT 1

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Post by Rudy on May 23, 2014 22:32:07 GMT 1

Hi Hatcha,

Welcome!
That's actually a lot of questions and issues you raise...
Although I do not have any direct personal experience with Vipassana and Goenka's courses, I have heard quite a lot about it from others, so perhaps I can say something useful.

The Goenka retreats have a good reputation. One of the main things to know about it, is that Goenka chose to teach people this method but stripped of the word Buddhism and all the religious aspects. The idea is simply that Vipassana meditation is quite helpful for many people under many circumstances. So if your aim is not the aim of Buddhism: i.e. to become enlightened, but to become a happier person with a bit more controlled mind, it may be quite a perfect fit for you.

Vipassana is an essential part of Buddhist practice, not a type of Buddhism. Just as prayer is a part of Christianity, not particular to Catholics or Protestants or so. It is not really just linked to the Theravada tradition, although the term Vipassana is often found in Theravada practice.
Like with everything 'alien', there is often confusion about terms and practices in Buddhism. Simply said, Buddhism is based on a very different worldview then mono-theistic religions, like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, so logically, a lot of westerners tend to mix up things.

About enlightenment: simply said, the views in different traditions within Buddhism can differ quite a lot, so if you want to compare different traditions within Buddhism, well, you'll probably need to study quite a bit more then reading a couple of random books on Buddhism. It's not easy to explain this in a few lines. However, basically, Vipassana refers to the development of wisdom, and that is an essential part of enlightenment in Buddhism.

What confuses me a bit in your questions is that you say you are not aiming for enlightenment, but you are asking about enlightenment in different Buddhist traditions and wondering if Vipassana can take you there - so I'm lost at what you are really aiming at?

In brief, I think Goenka retreats have an excellent reputation if you wish to take advantage of a helpful Buddhist meditation technique, and you are not much interested in Buddhism as such.
Yes, Vipassana practiced by itself can be very beneficial to calm the mind and develop wisdom into your own life. But, if you want to achieve liberation or full enlightenment (these are different, but both called enlightenment in different traditions), it will not suffice by itself.
However, as you do not aim for enlightenment, that should not be a problem?

Does that help a bit?

spinynorman
Senior Member

Posts: 38

Vipassanna ?? Hmmm Aug 7, 2014 14:25:14 GMT 1

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Post by spinynorman on Aug 7, 2014 14:25:14 GMT 1

May 22, 2014 21:03:05 GMT 1 hatchha said:

HI All

I got quite confused about Vipassanna. A layman like myself could easily be lead into believing that it is a type of Buddhism, which it is not and is merely a meditative practice from Theravada. It seems to be billed as a entity on it's own in the west. I've seen it referred to, many places, as if it is a school of buddhism in its own right.

Then I start to wounder about the merits of separating Vipassanna & Samatha from their mother.

I've heard good things about Goenka retreats, and assuming you've been I hope you found it useful. It's worth observing that vipassana and samatha are qualities rather than methods, they can be translated as insight and calm, or clarity and tranquillity. It's important to develop both, in the same way that it's important to develop both sati and samadhi as path factors, ie mindfulness and concentration.

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spinynorman
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Posts: 38

Vipassanna ?? Hmmm Sept 6, 2014 16:49:58 GMT 1

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Post by spinynorman on Sept 6, 2014 16:49:58 GMT 1

Aug 7, 2014 14:25:14 GMT 1 spinynorman said:

May 22, 2014 21:03:05 GMT 1 hatchha said:

Then I start to wounder about the merits of separating Vipassanna & Samatha from their mother.

The first 15 minutes of this talk by Ajahn Brahm is worth watching. It describes how samatha, vipassana and metta work together, and it's done in an entertaining way!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjeFZoQYTPs

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spinynorman
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Posts: 38

Vipassanna ?? Hmmm Sept 7, 2014 11:53:58 GMT 1

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Post by spinynorman on Sept 7, 2014 11:53:58 GMT 1

And while we're at it!

This sutta is very helpful in explaining how tranquillity ( samatha ) and insight ( vipassana ) are both important. The sutta appears early in the Chapter of the Twos in the Anguttara Nikaya:

Tranquillity and Insight

Two things, O monks, partake of supreme knowledge. What two? Tranquillity and insight.

If tranquillity is developed, what benefit does it bring? The mind becomes developed. And
what is the benefit of a developed mind? All lust is abandoned.

If insight is developed, what benefit does it bring? Wisdom becomes developed. And what is
the benefit of developed wisdom? All ignorance is abandoned.

A mind defiled by lust is not freed; and wisdom defiled by ignorance cannot develop.

Thus, monks, through the fading away of lust there is liberation of mind; and through the fading away
of ignorance there is liberation by wisdom.

Last Edit: Sept 7, 2014 11:55:05 GMT 1 by spinynorman

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