ramas
New Member
Posts: 2 
|
Post by ramas on Jul 30, 2014 18:45:35 GMT 1
I feel great a connection to buddhism, but I have a problem understanding the karma described.
Let me give you a short story example:
Wing Fan: "A child was being mistreated and finally killed by his mother. Why did this happen to an innocent child?"
His Holiness: "It was the child's karma!"
Wing Fan: "So are you saying that it was the child's own doing?"
His Holiness: "Yes! We too must face the consequences of faulty actions we have committed in the past, those actions are irreversible; we must eventually undergo their effects."
Wing fan: "So the mother was the instrument to help the child getting rid of his negative karma from past actions?"
His Holiness replies: "Yes!"
Wing Fan: "Then how can killing a child be considered bad karma?"
---------------
|
|
|
|
Post by Will on Jul 30, 2014 19:21:05 GMT 1
I feel great a connection to buddhism, but I have a problem understanding the karma described. Let me give you a short story example:Wing Fan: "A child was being mistreated and finally killed by his mother. Why did this happen to an innocent child?" His Holiness: "It was the child's karma!" Wing Fan: "So are you saying that it was the child's own doing?" His Holiness: "Yes! We too must face the consequences of faulty actions we have committed in the past, those actions are irreversible; we must eventually undergo their effects." Wing fan: "So the mother was the instrument to help the child getting rid of his negative karma from past actions?" His Holiness replies: "Yes!" Wing Fan: "Then how can killing a child be considered bad karma?" --------------- Assuming that in a past lifetime a murder was committed by the present-day child, the mother's actions have still created murder karma for herself. Ordinarily, the fruition of the past life action of murder will take the form of much disease and an early death, for example. The intervention by another human who kills, does not help the 'child'. For now the child will have seeds of hate or fear against the 'mother', so that requires more negative effects to follow the 'child'. |
|
ramas
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by ramas on Jul 31, 2014 17:09:35 GMT 1
So it's a never ending domino effect once the first action has been set into motion?
How is it then possible to end the karma cycle as quickly as possible?
|
|
|
|
Post by Will on Jul 31, 2014 17:34:31 GMT 1
So it's a never ending domino effect once the first action has been set into motion? How is it then possible to end the karma cycle as quickly as possible? Yes, cyclic existence is perpetual as long as we lack wisdom to understand clearly our buddha-nature within. As for ending the karmic cycle 'quickly', that requires more than one lifetime, so quickly is relative. Buddha taught that Ignorance of the interdependent nature of every element within us and the universe, is the source of all suffering. He taught many practices to do this. Each practice is designed and targeted for a specific type of mind, so you have to study the buddha-dharma more to find the approach that will break the cycle for you. |
|
tamara
Senior Member
Posts: 178
|
Post by tamara on Aug 2, 2014 3:35:21 GMT 1
Ramas,
I am a Dharma practitioner since several years and I might be wrong in many things, still I dare to post here on this forum which once was a vibrant community.
Regarding your question:
````How is it then possible to end the karma cycle as quickly as possible? ````
I understand that there is only one way to break it:
It is to understand that even when one has the tendency, the urge to set a harmful action (in this case the mother feels like killing), one does not do it.
There is a knowledge and subsequently free will (sprung from so-called Buddha Nature) which tells us what is harmful to us and others and what is NOT.
This is, how the cycle is broken.
We have the opportunity to exercise this knowledge every single moment.
If I am wrong.....please correct me who ever reads these lines.
Tamara
|
|
|
|
Post by Rudy on Aug 6, 2014 23:15:22 GMT 1
Sorry guys for not being here so long... very busy.
Just like to add to Tamara's reply that actually only doing good actions and avoiding all negative actions is obviously very positive, but as long as we are ignorant of what reality is really about, we will keep producing negative karma. Simply said: as long as we are stupid, it's impossible to be perfect.
The real stopping of the domino effect is directly seeing ultimate reality, called selflessness, emptiness or buddha-nature. By that direct realization, we are not bound by our own ignorance to the cycle of existence.
|
|
|
|
Post by deborah on Aug 7, 2014 12:49:34 GMT 1
Rudy, thank you for your comments. I am a new student of Tibetan Buddhism. My resources for learning Dharma have been limited by availability here in Latin America, so I have been reliant on 'A View on Buddhism' and "The Berzin Archives'. I have no teacher & no Sangha, so I hope to post questions here as they come up.
I especially have appreciated what you said about the voidness of existence and the non-existence of an independent "I". For myself, I find it very comforting to have a thorough explanation of the interdependence of all sentient beings. This is a truth I have thought of very often, but have appreciated an in-depth explanation that matches my own leanings. The realization of the existence of a mindstream is also very helpful.
Karma is difficult only because I don't now have the wisdom to know the effect of many of my actions, nor always sufficient motivations to avoid laziness. I am impatient for progress but sometimes would rather goof off on the computer or garden. I know I'll need may years to develop on the path of bodhichitta.
|
|
tamara
Senior Member
Posts: 178
|
Post by tamara on Aug 9, 2014 4:14:43 GMT 1
Rudy wrote: ```Just like to add to Tamara's reply that actually only doing good actions and avoiding all negative actions is obviously very positive, but as long as we are ignorant of what reality is really about, we will keep producing negative karma. Simply said: as long as we are stupid, it's impossible to be perfect. The real stopping of the domino effect is directly seeing ultimate reality, called selflessness, emptiness or buddha-nature. By that direct realization, we are not bound by our own ignorance to the cycle of existence.```` Yes, Rudy, I fully agree. There a stages to Buddhist knowledge, to any kind of understanding in fact. At the beginning we start with avoiding the so-called 10 negative actions. Then at some point we start to theoretically understand what is meant by`ultimate nature`,`direct perception of emptiness` or how ever one wishes to label it. When our meditation/concentration skills improve we might even get glimpses of it and then try to sustain it longer. A lifelong undertaking......, anyway no rush here, there are eons ahead of us. At the same time we keep in mind: As long as we are not Buddhas every well-meant action involves negative karma, because it is ego-driven to some point. Deborah, welcome to the forum. In which country do you live ? I see that quite a few Latin American countries have vibrant Buddhist communities. There is the www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOEXkaow0ko Discovering Buddhism Series by FPMT. I helped me a lot in the beginning. I found Ven.Thubten Chodron and the teachings and books by Ani Tenzin Palmo extremely helpful in the beginning and then of course Robina Courtin. Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche wrote quite a few books for beginners. There is so much available about Buddhism nowadays that the wise choice can be a problem. I can say that it took me 10 years of thorough investigations of different Buddhist schools and paths until I decided to stick to one particular thing very recently. Buddhist teachings tell us one thing and one thing only, but to convey this knowledge there is a myriad of explanations. Tamara |
|
|
|
Post by noessentialnature on Aug 10, 2014 18:39:56 GMT 1
So it's a never ending domino effect once the first action has been set into motion? How is it then possible to end the karma cycle as quickly as possible? I see two questions here. You can cease creating karma - though you cannot avoid the karma you have already created. Even once awakened, the Buddha suffered various afflictions such as headaches and back pain as results of his past actions. Each time you resist conditioning, compulsion, you are more free, creating less karma. But of course good karma, good habits, actions to benefit others, may help in various ways (though in Zen they are very clear that no karma brings you closer to or further from awakening, as I understand it). But the Buddhist practice is not to seek good karma for oneself, only to help others. The second question, having dealt with how to cease personal karma, is all karma. To end the cycle, us not simply to leave it, as an awakened 'non returner'. Ending the cycle can only arise with the liberation of all beings, the emptying of all the realms. That is the goal of boddhisattvas, and follows the ending of all suffering. |
|
|
|
Post by spinynorman on Aug 15, 2014 12:24:11 GMT 1
So it's a never ending domino effect once the first action has been set into motion? How is it then possible to end the karma cycle as quickly as possible? You can cease creating karma - though you cannot avoid the karma you have already created. I think that's the important point. We're sort of stuck with past karma, it's how we act now that makes the difference. |
|
dude
New Member
Posts: 7
|
Post by dude on Aug 21, 2014 3:17:15 GMT 1
Yep, that's the whole point.
Everything as it is right now resulted from causes made in the past.
Everything to the infinite future depends on causes made now.
|
|
|
|
Post by noessentialnature on Aug 21, 2014 17:19:32 GMT 1
Yep, that's the whole point. Everything as it is right now resulted from causes made in the past. Everything to the infinite future depends on causes made now. But that is not karma. Karma is about intention, about events as they seem directed at and for ourselves. Our own patch of mind-made, not all things. |
|
matt
Senior Member
Posts: 425
|
Post by matt on Aug 22, 2014 5:42:58 GMT 1
Yep, that's the whole point. Everything as it is right now resulted from causes made in the past. Everything to the infinite future depends on causes made now. But that is not karma. Karma is about intention, about events as they seem directed at and for ourselves. Our own patch of mind-made, not all things. Well, it can get very complicated. So IMO you are both right. Karma means intention, so for most practical concerns, it does not refer to ordinary cause and effect like the physical laws of the Universe. If you go deeply enough into the subject, though, they are related in that for a long time a Universe is barren of life and sentience, so no intention, so only the physical laws apply, but later, when sentient beings are born into that Universe, it is their karma within that Universe that creates the conditions for it, gives rise to it. This according to the Dalai Lama in The Universe in a Single Atom. Karma and time can be very tricky. We have to remember that only a fully enlightened Buddha completely understands the workings of karma. Ultimately it, like all phenomena is empty as well. That is our saving grace, as Rudy pointed out earlier.  My way of putting it in a nut shell is to say, all is mind and there is no-mind. |
|
|
|
Post by noessentialnature on Aug 23, 2014 0:13:10 GMT 1
If you go deeply enough into the subject, though, they are related in that for a long time a Universe is barren of life and sentience, so no intention, so only the physical laws apply, but later, when sentient beings are born into that Universe, it is their karma within that Universe that creates the conditions for it, gives rise to it. My way of putting it in a nut shell is to say, all is mind and there is no-mind. So, in whose mind were those physical laws? The mind of God? There is a widely respected idea in physics that these laws may be mind-made: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle My understanding of the Buddhist perspective, is that those past events were not made by the need for us as observers to collapse a wavefunction, but that all past, all events, all phenomena, exist as fundamentally as anything does, only in Mind - that is, not simply in one persons mind, but in all the interlinked minds and thoughts. Indra's net. It is interesting to note how the tools of language and learning -unattainable by a 'separate' mind- increase the sophistication of what we can think, and this applies too to the way we can look into the past of the universe and into the fine-grain of it now (mental tools refined by experiment). The dependence of (the communication of) Buddhism on language, and it's arising at a certain moment, perhaps points to the arising of a sufficient collective capacity for awakening. Perhaps together, this points to the capacity for all of Mind to become awakened, the goal of boddhisattvas.. |
|
|
|
Post by Will on Aug 23, 2014 15:29:20 GMT 1
|
|
